OH: Woman's house and goods wrongly "repossessed"

[MechAg94]

Or they could return the actual items THEY STOLE instead of intentionally victimizing her a second time.

You try that pennies on the dollar bull with me? Doom on you.

Getting back the original merchandise is unlike;ly to ever happen, but I think they should be forced to do it, or replace it with brand new. Their errors and omission insurance should cover all of that, and of course they could subrogate against whoever was responsible for getting it wrong.

This is where I think I would fall. The Bank could make this right with a little effort and not incur a great deal of cost in the long run. New furniture mark up is huge (I have heard 400%). I am sure they could outfit this lady's entire house at a steep discount. I am sure they deal with some furniture stores locally. The bank could turn it into positive publicity also.

[MechAg94]

Another question on my mind, what if the lady owned several guns? What would the repo people and the bank do with them? Would they turn them over to the cops or find a pawn shop/gun dealer to buy them? There would definitely be paperwork involved. If they couldn't produce that paperwork, I think I would involve the BATFE. I guess I am picturing some collector with 20 or 30 guns and 15K rounds of ammo suddenly finding it all gone.

I guess that is another reason to make sure your gun inventory is copied to a location outside your house. If you left it on your computer, well that is gone with everything else.

[SewTexas]

she needs to take them to court, it would end up before a jury since she's asking for a high amount, I'd like to see what happens when they stand before a jury, they would lose real fast and real large, and they know it....

Of course they would lose they admit they screwed up. It is just that the law only allows you to recover actual damages. You have a 5 to 10 yo sofa worth $200 then that's what you get $200 not the $1000 for a new sofa. And then there are the items they said they didn't remove which she has to show and prove they removed. Unless she can get punitive damages then I an possitive she will get much less than she requests at trial and bare the cost of the trial.

and what I am saying is that a jury would give her the punitive damages, because she deserves to be able to refurbish her home and not from Goodwill like you are implying.

I'm saying that I don't think the law allows her to ask for punitive damages without some extra factor that she would have to prove that so far there hasn't been a hint of. The jury can want whatever they want if the law doesn't allow for it then they are out of luck and so would this lady. And by the way I implied nothing! I wrote that I believe the law allows and requires the bank only to pay replacement value on whatever her loss is.

I don't know what Ohio law is, but in Texas, I thought punitive damages were capped at some multiple of actual damages, not eliminated completely. She could still attempt to get punitive damages, just not millions.

exactly, she can get damages, just not huge damages, and I think she could claim negligence, plain and simple.

[EEllis]

Another question on my mind, what if the lady owned several guns? What would the repo people and the bank do with them? Would they turn them over to the cops or find a pawn shop/gun dealer to buy them? There would definitely be paperwork involved. If they couldn't produce that paperwork, I think I would involve the BATFE. I guess I am picturing some collector with 20 or 30 guns and 15K rounds of ammo suddenly finding it all gone.

I guess that is another reason to make sure your gun inventory is copied to a location outside your house. If you left it on your computer, well that is gone with everything else.

Cloud storage my man, it's all in the cloud. Property is property. If the bank wanted to "Fix up" the place everything in it would be theirs to do with as they wished. Some states make you sell everything and credit the debt but not Ohio. Often cheap foreclosures won't even be cleaned at all leaving everything on the property to the new buyers. And since there is no paperwork on private property firearm sales in Ohio I'm not sure what BATFE paperwork you think would need filing. Mind you there may be something specific about guns on the books somewhere but I doubt it.

[EEllis]

exactly, she can get damages, just not huge damages, and I think she could claim negligence, plain and simple.

You can recover punitive damages when the defendant acts either: (a) intentionally; or (b) with malice – that is, when the defendant acts with “a conscious disregard for the rights and safety of another person that has a great probability of causing substantial harm”. In Ohio the right to punitive damages must be proved by clear and convincing evidence. (This is a legal distinction; in most civil cases, the victim only has to prove his or her damages by “the greater weight of the evidence.”

Basically, punitive damages are more difficult to win in Ohio than most people think and they are capped at some multiple of actual damages, double I believe.

[EEllis]

I was under the impression that they were required to hold on to (as opposed the throwing away) "abandoned" property for a while just in case something like this happened. Now that I say it out loud, though, it makes me wonder why, if I'm right, they would be allowed to sell said "abandoned" property.

Different States Different rules. In Ohio if you are legally evicted the cops show up and you must get everything you are going to get out then. Now you are given notice of course and a cop is required to be there but the person evicting doesn't have to store anything. In this case I figure they evicted the "correct" person and then screwed up with the addresses and treated her house as being evicted or "evicted" the lady when she was gone and as such believed the property was abandoned and without claim.

[jimlongley]

Or they could return the actual items THEY STOLE instead of intentionally victimizing her a second time.

You try that pennies on the dollar bull with me? Doom on you.

Getting back the original merchandise is unlike;ly to ever happen

In this case, why not? It was discovered relatively quickly, and they should have at least a general customer list, even if it doesn't list exactly who bought exactly what. The embarrassment of having to personally call everyone you've done business with in the past <time period> and explain that you accidentally stole some poor woman's stuff and you need them to bring "their" merchandise back is just part of paying for your mistake.

If they followed the practices I have had experience with, that stuff was parceled out, farmed out, and sold before she got home, and it's likely there were no records kept of who bought what.

Some years ago I sent a ham radio in for repair, and several weeks later (as in guns these things take time) when I hadn't heard anything, I called them, and got no answer (and this was before voice mail) and no reply to message left on an answering machine that soon was full. I called some local people and discovered that the business had been forced into receivership and the doors were locked with a sheriff's notice on the door. A call to the sheriff's revealed that a bank was in charge, and a call to the bank said that the sheriff was in charge. It didn't matter who I talked to about recovering my property, it was someone else's job/responsibility and I got no one that could return my property to me.

I finally resorted to consulting an attorney (who was a ham) and he consulted another attorney (also a ham) local to the store, and we got an order, signed by a judge (another ham) for the return of my merchandise.

Of course finding out who to serve was another matter, but we took the expedient step of going to the court (by this time I had driven there) that was in charge, and within minutes I had my radio back.

I got a letter from the bank claiming that I had removed their property, anything that was on the site was their property, so I sent them a copy f my bill of sale, the bill of lading from shipping it for the repair, as well as an estimate of the repair, and a copy of the order releasing my radio back to me, and suggested that they call the sheriff that unlocked the door and send him over to my state to pick me up.

I never got a reply.

[seamusTX]

This kind of problem, where a business folds while in possession of someone's property or a deposit for work that was never performed, happens rather often. It seems to happen a lot with custom-tailored wedding dresses.

Meanwhile ...

Vinton County Prosecutor Considers Charges After Home Was Wrongly Repossessed

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/201 ... essed.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hasten to point out that although I thought the bank or their goons had the moral character of turkey buzzards, I didn't think the incident was a crime. But I'm not the DA, who gets to make that call.

- Jim

[EEllis]

More and more complicated. It seems the woman didn't report quite a few items missing until much later. She says it's because she was going thru a divorce and thought her ex took them and only later realized he didn't. I think it's understandable but it's also understandable from the banks view when the list of property and the price tag suddenly takes a big jump up.

[MechAg94]

The bank told Barnett that their GPS led them astray.

I wasn't sure this was criminal either, but if all these people used was GPS to locate the house, I think that is either serious gross negligence or criminal. Somewhere someone should have done more than just used a GPS or saw the grass wasn't mowed. If nothing else, they should pursue charges to make sure lenders and repossessors feel the pain when they royally screw up like this. It might force them to adopt some better practices.

Also, I see this as a very serious screw up. If all it would take it $18K to make her be happy and go away, I'd say the bank was getting off cheap.

[seamusTX]

At this point, $18K is going to look like lunch money.

Not to change the subject or anything, but it amazes me that some members of this forum think it's acceptable to shoot a bum for stealing a can of beer, but a bank literally emptying out someone's house is just a minor misunderstanding.

- Jim

[Tic Tac]

Actual damages are replacement cost, not some imaginary depreciated value. Or they could return the actual items THEY STOLE instead of intentionally victimizing her a second time.

You try that pennies on the dollar bull with me? Doom on you.

Bull.

Cute but try that with me and you'll wish you didn't. Doom on you.

On a different note, I'm pleased to hear the county prosecutor is considering criminal charges.

[MechAg94]

Yeah, even if the charges don't get real far, it puts more pressure on the bank to make good on this one way or the other.

[EEllis]

At this point, $18K is going to look like lunch money.

Not to change the subject or anything, but it amazes me that some members of this forum think it's acceptable to shoot a bum for stealing a can of beer, but a bank literally emptying out someone's house is just a minor misunderstanding.

- Jim

Who thinks it's minor? I didn't see anyone expressing that idea.

[EEllis]

Actual damages are replacement cost, not some imaginary depreciated value. Or they could return the actual items THEY STOLE instead of intentionally victimizing her a second time.

You try that pennies on the dollar bull with me? Doom on you.

Bull.

Cute but try that with me and you'll wish you didn't. Doom on you.

On a different note, I'm pleased to hear the county prosecutor is considering criminal charges.

Well if you add "Doom" on it then the fact that you have no legal basis for your claims suddenly doesn't matter anymore :eyeroll: