TexasCHLforum.com

In my younger years I drank with friends and drove many times without an issue.. But I did not have a CHL nor did I carry a firearm.. I do like to drink a few but only in the comfort of my own house. Maybe this is an age thing, but too me when in public and carrying a firearm I’m responsible for myself and the people around me. Plus it’s not worth the chance of losing my CHL for a single beer or glass of wine. I have learned a lot about the law from this thread but too me it’s still not worth the risk.
Each person has to weight the responsibilities of what they do while carrying a firearm. I’m a firm believer that any alcohol could change your abilities to use your gun in a situation that requires your full attention. Just my thoughts..

Walther99,
I agree with everything you said !

Many interesting posts and, like most issues regarding the Texas CHL, clear as mud!

I don't drink and drive. I don't drink and carry.

Photoman wrote:Many interesting posts and, like most issues regarding the Texas CHL, clear as mud!

I don't drink and drive. I don't drink and carry.

1) Do you drink at all?

2) Do you think it's wrong to have a drink while carrying?

3) If "yes" to #2 above, do you think it's wrong when cops do it?

4) If "yes" to #2 and #3 above, do you have any plans to try to do anything about it? Have you ever written a letter to the editor about it? Have you ever called your state rep or senator and asked them to introduce or support a bill that would penalize cops for having a drink while carrying?

If not, why not?

5) If "yes" to #2 and "no" to #3, why would you think that cops are more responsible after having a drink, or 10 drinks for that matter, than CHL'ers? Could this be something that is covered at the academy?

6) Cops in general seem to be pretty responsible people who care about the community. They also seem concerned that people handle guns safely and responsibly at all times. So do you think they would support a total ban (i.e. one that included cops) on drinking while carrying?

Just wondering.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

Photoman wrote:Many interesting posts and, like most issues regarding the Texas CHL, clear as mud!

I don't drink and drive. I don't drink and carry.

1) Do you drink at all?

2) Do you think it's wrong to have a drink while carrying?

3) If "yes" to #2 above, do you think it's wrong when cops do it?

4) If "yes" to #2 and #3 above, do you have any plans to try to do anything about it? Have you ever written a letter to the editor about it? Have you ever called your state rep or senator and asked them to introduce or support a bill that would penalize cops for having a drink while carrying?

If not, why not?

5) If "yes" to #2 and "no" to #3, why would you think that cops are more responsible after having a drink, or 10 drinks for that matter, than CHL'ers? Could this be something that is covered at the academy?

6) Cops in general seem to be pretty responsible people who care about the community. They also seem concerned that people handle guns safely and responsibly at all times. So do you think they would support a total ban (i.e. one that included cops) on drinking while carrying?

Just wondering.

An interesting series of questions. I know you didn't ask them of me, but I thought I'd chime in again with some thoughtsd...

1) Yes, I do drink. Rarely heavily anymore (I did plenty of that foolishness when I was in the Army, and have a pretty significant tolerance to this day). I gave up getting drunk back before my kids were born. I'm reminded of a "Roseanne" episode, where she & her hubby found an old dime bag & had a puff. It left them so paranoid that they could hardly function. She kept asking what they would do if the kids needed help, and she & hubby were too impaired by the weed to do something about it. I always thought it was the best episode of that show.

2) I do not think it's wrong to have a drink while carrying, unless a drink will leave you so impaired you are unable to function "normally." Keep in mind that alcohol begins to have an effect on your reaction times & judgement at BACs that are barely detectable, and that different people have different levels of tolerance for dealing with said impairment. I am personally most comfortable with having no alcohol in my system when carrying, so I don't drink when I'm outside the home and carrying. I don't judge others who choose to drink unless it leaves them impaired & unable to function within the range we call normal (and by the time I reach that conclusion, they are pretty impaired). When I'm home, I will have a couple and never worry about it.

3) It isn't wrong when cops do it unless they are impaired (just like me).

4) It really isn't necessary. The current laws are adequate so long as they are enforced with no prejudice (that is, no one, cop or otherwise gets a pass on carrying while intoxicated).

5) Doesn't apply.

6) I'd be surprised if cops support a total ban on alcohol consumption while carrying. I don't believe we need a ban, though, so long as everyone acts like responsible people. It isn't about being a cop or not, it's about being responsible and using good judgement before the drinking starts and then sticking to thoe rules afterwards (if there is an afterwards (that is, you have one or more drinks).

Mithras61 wrote: 4) It really isn't necessary. The current laws are adequate so long as they are enforced with no prejudice (that is, no one, cop or otherwise gets a pass on carrying while intoxicated).

If you re-read this thread, you'll find that someone pointed out, correctly I believe, that there is no law against cops carrying while intoxicated at the present time.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

Mithras61 wrote: 4) It really isn't necessary. The current laws are adequate so long as they are enforced with no prejudice (that is, no one, cop or otherwise gets a pass on carrying while intoxicated).

If you re-read this thread, you'll find that someone pointed out, correctly I believe, that there is no law against cops carrying while intoxicated at the present time.

I didn't say it was okay for them to carry while intoxicated. I said it was okay for them to have a drink while they carry. Having a drink and being intoxicated are not the same thing in over 99% of the populace.

ForbidInjustice wrote:Only reading the first few posts of this thread, here's how I respond to the original issue.

I'm torn. I carry just about all the time, but if I go out to a restaurant, even if I leave my firearm in the car, technically, I cannot go inside and have a beer. It is illegal to carry while intoxicated, and one beer constitutes intoxication. Even with my firearm separated from the ammunition in the car, I am still considered carrying in Texas, granted I am not 'traveling'.

Would I get pulled over? Probably not. Would I consent to the officer's search of my vehicle? No, I wouldn't [and he wouldn't have probable cause]. The only legal fix is going out with a person who was also a CHL holder, and they remain sober while I drink. But .. does that make sense? Not really.

Newbie here....

I'm not sure where I got this from and I can't find reference to it in the code, but I thought putting it out of reach would mean that you are no longer carrying? Sometimes, going home from work, the wife will meet me somewhere for dinner, or someone will call me for a couple of drinks, especially on Friday afternoons. These events are unplanned, hence I'm carrying. When I get to my new, unplanned destination, I put my business case where I keep my handgun in the trunk of my car. It's not on my person or within reach while drinking or driving (if I even drive). I felt that at this point, I wasn't carrying while having a couple of drinks go through my system.

Am I wrong here?

Mithras61 wrote:

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

Mithras61 wrote: 4) It really isn't necessary. The current laws are adequate so long as they are enforced with no prejudice (that is, no one, cop or otherwise gets a pass on carrying while intoxicated).

If you re-read this thread, you'll find that someone pointed out, correctly I believe, that there is no law against cops carrying while intoxicated at the present time.

I didn't say it was okay for them to carry while intoxicated. I said it was okay for them to have a drink while they carry. Having a drink and being intoxicated are not the same thing in over 99% of the populace.

I agree. But what I said was that another poster showed that there is currently no law in Texas against cops carrying while intoxicated.

The law only refers to people carrying on a CHL. I'm not even sure if "travellers" are covered by it.

So what I was saying is that right now, it is legal for cops to carry while intoxicated.

This is what prompted my series of questions. To the people who say (paraphrased), "Any amount of alcohol has some effect on your judgement, therefore even one drink is wrong.", I basically responded, "Does it bother you that cops can legally carry while drunk, and if so, what have you said or done to try to put an end to it?"

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

Photoman wrote:Many interesting posts and, like most issues regarding the Texas CHL, clear as mud!

I don't drink and drive. I don't drink and carry.

1) Do you drink at all?

2) Do you think it's wrong to have a drink while carrying?

3) If "yes" to #2 above, do you think it's wrong when cops do it?

4) If "yes" to #2 and #3 above, do you have any plans to try to do anything about it? Have you ever written a letter to the editor about it? Have you ever called your state rep or senator and asked them to introduce or support a bill that would penalize cops for having a drink while carrying?

If not, why not?

5) If "yes" to #2 and "no" to #3, why would you think that cops are more responsible after having a drink, or 10 drinks for that matter, than CHL'ers? Could this be something that is covered at the academy?

6) Cops in general seem to be pretty responsible people who care about the community. They also seem concerned that people handle guns safely and responsibly at all times. So do you think they would support a total ban (i.e. one that included cops) on drinking while carrying?

Just wondering.

1. Yes I drink on occasion.

2. Wrong? Morally? No. Legally? It's very unclear. That's why I choose not to risk it.

3. N/A

4. N/A

5. N/A

6. Cops are not a homogenous group. I'm sure some would support a total ban and some wouldn't.

Photoman wrote:
1. Yes I drink on occasion.

2. Wrong? Morally? No. Legally? It's very unclear. That's why I choose not to risk it.

3. N/A

4. N/A

5. N/A

6. Cops are not a homogenous group. I'm sure some would support a total ban and some wouldn't.

So you think that having a drink while carrying is "legally unclear". OK. Now for CHL's it might be a little fuzzy, though I think not. But for cops it is perfectly clear - it's flat out legal period.

And going beyond that, as far as I can tell it is flat out legal for a cop to be stinking drunk while carrying (off duty of course).

So why aren't the people who say, "...even one drink effects your judgement, so I won't do it.." out there beating the drums to close this huge "loophole" in the law that allows cops to carry when they are too drunk to legally drive?

Note to Photoman: I am not saying that you are one of those people. You clearly are not. But I'm just curious about their somewhat deafening silence in this matter.

And it can't be because there's no significant amount of violent crime being perpetrated by drunk cops with guns - because there is also no significant amount of violent crime being perpetrated by drunk CHL's with guns.

So there must be some other reason. And I'm looking for someone to tell me what it might be. Because otherwise, I will continue to cling to the naive notion that what is (morally) OK for cops is also OK for CHL's, and that the law should reflect that.

Note: Since I think it is morally wrong for anyone to carry while stinking drunk, and morally OK for anyone with a normal alcohol response to carry after having one drink, this would require changing the law for cops to make it illegal to carry while intoxicated (just like it already is for CHL's) and adding a definition to the law so that it is clear what the term "intoxicated" means in the context of carrying.

Now as for question 6 (Why don't cops support a ban on cops carrying while intoxicated?). Sure, cops are not a homogenous group. But there is no need for them to be unanimous before taking a position. In fact, on many occassions I have seen chiefs take positions that were different from the rank and file.

No, I think there is a far simpler explanation in this case. I think that the consensus among cops is:

1) They don't want any new restrictions on drinking (by cops) while carrying.
2) They do not see any problems with the law allowing them to carry while stinking drunk, as long as they get someone to drive for them.
3) At the same time, they have no problems enforcing the law banning CHL's from carrying while intoxicated. (Though it seems from DPS stats that almost no one is ever charged under this law.)

And also at the same time, many CHL'ers are so spooked that they might get busted for carrying after having one drink that they don't do it - preferring not to "run the risk".

Even though what they would be doing is perfectly legal - at least as legal as a cop getting stinking drunk while carrying.

My personal opinion, which is mine alone, take it or leave it.

Alcohol (ethanol) is a psychoactive dpressant drug, period.

Ingestion of ANY drug, of ANY amount, will alter judgment to some degree or another, depending on many variables.

When you drink, you roll the dice. It is an individual choice.

The actions or inactions of others have no relevence to the choices that one makes for themselves.

Any consequences as a result of the choices one makes, may be suffered without consent, regardless of 'feelings' of what is 'right' or 'wrong'.

Perception is reality for many. One's actions, after the fact, can be manipulated by the verbal description of another to be percieved totally different from what the actor intended for them to be.

Trainman wrote:My personal opinion, which is mine alone, take it or leave it.

Alcohol (ethanol) is a psychoactive dpressant drug, period.

Ingestion of ANY drug, of ANY amount, will alter judgment to some degree or another, depending on many variables.

When you drink, you roll the dice. It is an individual choice.

The actions or inactions of others have no relevence to the choices that one makes for themselves.

Any consequences as a result of the choices one makes, may be suffered without consent, regardless of 'feelings' of what is 'right' or 'wrong'.

Perception is reality for many. One's actions, after the fact, can be manipulated by the verbal description of another to be percieved totally different from what the actor intended for them to be.

After reading, and re-reading your post, I find myself reminded of that commercial where the two French guys are trying to figure out where "behind" is for the round-shaped toilet that sits in the middle of the room.

After all, how can we really know anything?

When you're hungry, eating a nice plate of spaghetti and meatballs puts you in a different mood than you were in before you ate it, period.

When your boss dumps on you you feel different emotionally than you did before, period.

A cup of coffee has a psychoactive effect, as does a cigarette or cigar or a mouthfull of chewing tobacco, period.

C'est la vie, right?

After reading, and re-reading your post, I find myself reminded of that commercial where the two French guys are trying to figure out where "behind" is for the round-shaped toilet that sits in the middle of the room.

After all, how can we really know anything?

When you're hungry, eating a nice plate of spaghetti and meatballs puts you in a different mood than you were in before you ate it, period.

When your boss dumps on you you feel different emotionally than you did before, period.

A cup of coffee has a psychoactive effect, as does a cigarette or cigar or a mouthfull of chewing tobacco, period.

C'est la vie, right?

Peut-être......

At the same time, they have no problems enforcing the law banning CHLs from carrying while intoxicated. (Though it seems from DPS stats that almost no one is ever charged under this law.)

F.T.Y. - I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make: (1) you're upset that cops can get drunk and carry their handguns and you can't or (2) you don't think that anyone (cops included) should be able to carry when they're intoxicated.

You also state:

At the same time, they have no problems enforcing the law banning CHLs from carrying while intoxicated. (Though it seems from DPS stats that almost no one is ever charged under this law.)

The DPS is probably right about that. My experience would leave me to believe that the few that were charged with this would also have probably been charged with DWI. That's the primary reason for contact a LE officer would have in discovering a CHL holder was intoxicated. Also, if a LE officer was convicted of DWI he or she would lose their job and no longer be able to carry either.

Again, this is a non-issue because by far the majority of CHL holders don't drink and drive in an intoxicated state, thus putting themselves in jeopardy of this situation happening. The ones that do deserve to be charged - just like a LE officer should also be for DWI.

I agree that a CHL holder, off-duty LEO, or just a plain citizen carrying under the traveling doctrine, should be able to have something to drink and still carry IF it doesn't impair their ability to function. If you can safely drive a vehicle then you should be able to have access to a handgun to defend yourself.