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nightmare69 wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:
War is not law enforcement. Law enforcement is not war. There is a difference and if you cannot see the difference maybe you should change your profession. When LEO starts looking at us as collateral damage then we need to change things. Do you recall something called the Bill of Rights? Due process? Innocent until proven guilty? That child was guilty of nothing but being in the way of a flash bang device. What you propose as the norm is not fighting evil. What you propose is evil.

We fight violence with violence. It may be going hands on to lethal force, all are forms of violence. If you think the entire mentally of LE needs changing then I challenge you to get hired on by a dept, go through the academy and get out there and make a difference.

We can debate LE weapons, tactics, and mentally all day but at the end we are just trying to contain the crime and violence on the streets and go home to our families in one piece. Also trying not to end up on YouTube.

We are just trying to live our lives without succumbing to NKW sent to the wrong address or be an innocent victim like that child that had its face blown off. I do not need to be a cop in order to know right from wrong. I did my time serving my country keeping the bad guys away. I do not have to prove anything.

Exactly what violence did that child commit to deserve having its face blown off?

"To learn who rules over you, find out whom you are not allowed to criticize". - Voltaire

nightmare69 wrote: I thank you for your service and respect your opinion. Reality is that no knocks will most likely be around long after we are gone. Most of our swat guys are either still in, or were in the military and we all are on the same page.

It doesn't matter you're all on the same page, that page isn't in the Constitution.

Your little rant about putting on a vest, not impressed. I've done it, a lot. Taught it even.

Ask one of the soldiers on here what a "tactical call out" is and why we started using them.

The arrogance you displayed in your previous post is the kind of thing that is costing LEO the support you need to survive. You think you can swim in a sea of distrust and hatred? If you do you are sadly mistaken.

That baby was not a member of AQ.

anygunanywhere wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:
It's tragic that innocent live are lost but the system works and it will continue to be used.

If innocent lives are lost the system is not working.

This whole "means justify the end" garbage mentality makes me ill and is not representative of a free society or the liberty it deseves.

Hard to believe anyone, especially someone in law enforcement, sees a baby blown up in its crib as mere collateral damage in this continuing folly known as the "War on Drugs". Pure police state thinking.

An LEO posting here under the moniker "nightmare69" is a bit concerning. I have tried to be a good soldier and do my best to back the Blue and consistently be generous with the benefit of the doubt, but then I read some of these responses and I feel really dumb for extending that near unconditional trust and support.

nightmare69 wrote:. . . The reason LE uses no knocks is because they work well with minimal casualties on both sides. The ones wanting to forbid no knocks should educate themselves by strapping on body armor, grabbing a rifle, and get into formation. You give the bad guys time to grab weapons and aim down the fatial funnel there would be more blue blood spilled.

That's just the latest propaganda used to justify the a dangerous and unconstitutional practice. When no-knock warrants were coming into vogue in the 1960's, the claimed justification was to prevent drug dealers from flushing the evidence before the LEO's made entrance and secured the scene.

Chas.

nightmare69 wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:
War is not law enforcement. Law enforcement is not war. There is a difference and if you cannot see the difference maybe you should change your profession. When LEO starts looking at us as collateral damage then we need to change things. Do you recall something called the Bill of Rights? Due process? Innocent until proven guilty? That child was guilty of nothing but being in the way of a flash bang device. What you propose as the norm is not fighting evil. What you propose is evil.

We fight violence with violence. It may be going hands on to lethal force, all are forms of violence. If you think the entire mentally of LE needs changing then I challenge you to get hired on by a dept, go through the academy and get out there and make a difference.

We can debate LE weapons, tactics, and mentally all day but at the end we are just trying to contain the crime and violence on the streets and go home to our families in one piece. Also trying not to end up on YouTube.

I've worn the badge and uniform and bad guys were no less dangerous than they are now. A retired DPS Lt. said it best. "Respect for law enforcement and community relations are rapidly declining because of what cadets are being taught in academies all over the country. Cadets are being taught that they are the pointy end of the spear. They are taught to be not just COPSs, but judge, jury and executioner. That came from a high ranking officer with over 30 years experience. He too longs for the days of community policing.

Chas.

nightmare69 wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:The police are not executing these no knock warrants on foreign military targets or terrorists. The police are not the military and rarely are military tactics appropriate in law enforcement. No knocks really should be reserved for only the most dangerous cases. In what percentage of the cases do the subjects of a announce and enter raid put up armed resistance? We know it's very rare. And, if these crazy drug dealers are so dangerous, why enter at all? Much safer to catch 'em outside. And what's with the tacticool flash bangs? How many houses do these things set on fire?

And yes, the ones I went on were Aryan brotherhood who manufactured dope and ran guns, not the nicest people. Some of these guys never left their house so we had to go in. Some of these dope dealers are smart and have learned how to avoid being caught.

As a campus COP, how were you involved in drug raids against Aryan Brotherhood drug houses?

Chas.

A child should never be harmed nor other inoccent people, ever. It does happen from time to time unfortunately. I value everyone's opinion and hope that if you feel strongly enough to take this to the next step to one day have no knocks abolished. Most people though will never take this past the social media.

As long as judges continue to sign warrants then LE will continue to execute them. We will also risk our lives for those who disagree and or hate us. Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. I can say my mentality has really changed since getting into LE. Dealing with the scum of society everyday and seeing the pure evil man is capable of would change anyone.

Accidents happen, cops will make mistakes, some are even crooks with a badge, but most of us are just trying to fulfill our oath and go home at the end of watch. Paul Harvey said it best in this video titles Policeman.

http://youtu.be/RUUZ2fKVqcs



My screen name is from an old car project of mine. I've been building a 03 black Ford Mustang street car, I named it project Nightmare years ago.

Thanks for all the responses but I believe we will have to agree to disagree. Time for me to get ready for my shift.

God Bless and be safe.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:The police are not executing these no knock warrants on foreign military targets or terrorists. The police are not the military and rarely are military tactics appropriate in law enforcement. No knocks really should be reserved for only the most dangerous cases. In what percentage of the cases do the subjects of a announce and enter raid put up armed resistance? We know it's very rare. And, if these crazy drug dealers are so dangerous, why enter at all? Much safer to catch 'em outside. And what's with the tacticool flash bangs? How many houses do these things set on fire?

And yes, the ones I went on were Aryan brotherhood who manufactured dope and ran guns, not the nicest people. Some of these guys never left their house so we had to go in. Some of these dope dealers are smart and have learned how to avoid being caught.

As a campus COP, how were you involved in drug raids against Aryan Brotherhood drug houses?

Chas.

I hold a dual commission with a SO along with my University. I have worked as a jail deputy also in the past.

You are not a wolf.

OlBill wrote:You are not a wolf.

Never said I was but I will say all who wear the badge are sheepdogs. The meaning of the quote was no matter how much people love or hate us, we will continue to protect them and be the divide between chaos and control.

nightmare69 wrote:

OlBill wrote:You are not a wolf.

all who wear the badge are sheepdogs.

That's an absurd statement.

rbwhatever1 wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

OlBill wrote:You are not a wolf.

all who wear the badge are sheepdogs.

That's an absurd statement.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
I've worn the badge and uniform and bad guys were no less dangerous than they are now. A retired DPS Lt. said it best. "Respect for law enforcement and community relations are rapidly declining because of what cadets are being taught in academies all over the country. Cadets are being taught that they are the pointy end of the spear. They are taught to be not just COPSs, but judge, jury and executioner. That came from a high ranking officer with over 30 years experience. He too longs for the days of community policing.

Chas.

I know retired LEOs who used to carry a .38 wheel gun with only two speed loaders and never wore a vest. The weapons and armor has changed a lot along with the mentality of the citizens towards police. We are a para military organization and use military style tactics. I know most citizens will disagree with that but it's true. Even the NRA's own Dom Roso has a video about the military and police similarities.

In before police departments are not para military or anything close.

nightmare69 wrote: Most of our swat guys are either still in, or were in the military and we all are on the same page.

Therein lies the problem! As others have said, Law Enforcement is not the military, and the use of high risk military tactics against civilians is wrong.

There have been far too many cases of wrong addresses, innocent people killed or wounded and LEO's shot by their own adrenalin hyped fellow officers to cavalierly blow it off as "collateral damage". It's a high risk procedure that could usually be avoided, but has become overused because of the proliferation of SWAT/SRT teams in departments that only have them because "everyone else does", and the team members want to use all their toys and play "special ops"...even in situations where it's uncalled for. "When you're holding a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail".