TexasCHLforum.com

Taypo wrote:

jimlongley wrote: . . .

OTOH, Bass Pro, which seems to be the only place around to buy REAL black powder, wrote me a real nice letter and took down their (non-compliant) signage after I carded them.

Bass Pro was posted? That's interesting, considering their market. More points for Cabelas, I guess.

Right after they opened near DFW airport. I received an invitation in the mail and dropped by, and saw the non-compliant signage and asked to see a manager. Presented him with my "No Guns = No Money" card and included my name and address for response. I also wrote to their corporate, which the manager provided, pointing out not just how unpopular they would become with the shooting community, but the hypocritical nature of the posting.

BTW, when Cabela's opened in Allen they also had a non-compliant sign about not permitting loaded firearms in the store and I pointed it out the the guy at their package check station, he told me that even concealed carry was banned in the store. I did not have any cards with me, so all I did was tell him that Cabela's was not in compliance with Texas law, went and bought a half pound of fudge, and left. I have never seen that sign since, nor that employee, buyt a friend of mine works there now and he assures me that there is no such policy.

VMI77 wrote:

jimlongley wrote: . . .

OTOH, Bass Pro, which seems to be the only place around to buy REAL black powder, wrote me a real nice letter and took down their (non-compliant) signage after I carded them.

Thanks....I was wondering where I could find some real black powder.

It took the a long time to get it, they had to get it from the vault and I guess that takes two acts of God and bambam's countersignature.

That fake black powder does not work very well in flintlocks.

Oldgringo wrote:

jmra wrote:

howdy wrote:I just had lunch at Whataburger. Concealed is concealed. I think we are going to see lots of this type of request/letter when OC starts.

The only thing that surprises me is that people are surprised that companies will request that they not OC.

I still expect OC to become a non-issue after the first weekend......

Yeah I pretty much agree. I think there will be that initial "OMG that person is wearing a gun!" but will fade. I remember before concealed carry went into effect there was talk about how we would all be gunning each other down in the streets.... ....well that didnt happen.

OC I think will be a bit different because its...well in the open. But I think folks will get over rather quick. Unless someone is carrying something completely ridiculous that draws attention.

VMI77 wrote:

BobCat wrote:suthdj, no I hadn't read the fine print at the bottom until you pointed it out.

Had to copy the image, paste it in an image editing program and expand it, to even read most of it.

It says that 'the information contained herein is the proprietary and confidential work product of the whataburger system' - and not to share it with anybody who is not a whatburger employee.

So - thanks for pointing out the fine print, but I'm confused.

Why don't they simply post 30.07 instead of putting their employees in the awkward position of giving openly-armed customers verbal notice?

Three things to consider about the policy:

1. It says open carry of long guns, and in some cases, handguns.
2. It says the policy is for customers "demonstrating" their right to bear arms.
3. It says "Whataburger does not want weapons inside our restaurants."

Given #1, it does not appear to be a response to the passage of licensed open carry in Texas. Given #2 it seems to be addressing "demonstrations" not mere open carry of a handgun. Then they get confused, either with the English language or about what they're actually seeking when they say they don't want weapons inside their restaurants. That's all weapons....even though by omission it seems to later exclude CC. This I'm guessing is due to poor verbal skills on the part of those writing and approving the policy since they haven't posted 30.06 signs. After some consideration my take is that this policy was written in response to OCTidiots and pre-dates the passage of licensed open carry in Texas.

You make a lot of sense.

If the purported whataburger memo is a response to the OCT "demonstrators" and pre-dates the passage of licensed open carry, the issue of 30.07 signs is moot and my question is irrelevant.

LOL,I CCW in their place of Business all the Time. I might just OC just to make them jump through the hoops.

Sheepdogs do not bother the sheep. If they do, the are gone. Sheepdogs quietly mingle with the sheep and only make their presence known when a wolf or some other predator comes near.

C-dub wrote:Sheepdogs do not bother the sheep. If they do, the are gone. Sheepdogs quietly mingle with the sheep and only make their presence known when a wolf or some other predator comes near.

Nicely put.

Deltaboy wrote:LOL,I CCW in their place of Business all the Time. I might just OC just to make them jump through the hoops.

Yeah, that'll teach em. Way to be a positive example of CHL ownership

C-dub wrote:Sheepdogs do not bother the sheep. If they do, the are gone. Sheepdogs quietly mingle with the sheep and only make their presence known when a wolf or some other predator comes near.

For those of you who think that when a business opens their private property doors to the public that they lose some of their private property rights, you are 100% correct.

You are also 100% wrong in thinking that they lose control over the gun issue, however. It is all stipulated in the law. How hard is that to understand? It isn't you who is being discriminated against, but your gun. Your gun has no rights and your right to carry a gun in somebody else's business stops at the door if that is what they wish.

A business loses certain rights being open to the public and the public loses certain rights when going onto the property of another individual or entity.

Double Naught Spy wrote:For those of you who think that when a business opens their private property doors to the public that they lose some of their private property rights, you are 100% correct.

You are also 100% wrong in thinking that they lose control over the gun issue, however. It is all stipulated in the law. How hard is that to understand? It isn't you who is being discriminated against, but your gun. Your gun has no rights and your right to carry a gun in somebody else's business stops at the door if that is what they wish.

A business loses certain rights being open to the public and the public loses certain rights when going onto the property of another individual or entity.

As a matter of law, you are only correct for CHL's given proper notice. There are other special classes of citizens whose gun rights trump your "property" rights. Off and on duty LEO's, special agents, peace officers... It's right there in the Texas law.

Therefore I believe moral outrage at those who ignore a property owner's wishes and carry past non-compliant signage is misplaced. Especially in the case of concealed carry (which Whataburger doesn't really seem to be concerned about), your carrying has no effect on the property owner and others. That's why they call it "concealed". Open carry and IF (big if) somebody in authority notices, they can just tell you to leave, unless you're a cop.

Double Naught Spy wrote:For those of you who think that when a business opens their private property doors to the public that they lose some of their private property rights, you are 100% correct.

You are also 100% wrong in thinking that they lose control over the gun issue, however. It is all stipulated in the law. How hard is that to understand? It isn't you who is being discriminated against, but your gun. Your gun has no rights and your right to carry a gun in somebody else's business stops at the door if that is what they wish.

A business loses certain rights being open to the public and the public loses certain rights when going onto the property of another individual or entity.

Explain what rights are lost.

Jim Beaux wrote:

Double Naught Spy wrote:For those of you who think that when a business opens their private property doors to the public that they lose some of their private property rights, you are 100% correct.

You are also 100% wrong in thinking that they lose control over the gun issue, however. It is all stipulated in the law. How hard is that to understand? It isn't you who is being discriminated against, but your gun. Your gun has no rights and your right to carry a gun in somebody else's business stops at the door if that is what they wish.

A business loses certain rights being open to the public and the public loses certain rights when going onto the property of another individual or entity.

Explain what rights are lost.

Free speech. Bad mouth a business on their property and see what happens. Continually have vocal outbursts in a movie theater and see what happens. Preach in mall and see what happens.

gljjt wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:

Double Naught Spy wrote:For those of you who think that when a business opens their private property doors to the public that they lose some of their private property rights, you are 100% correct.

You are also 100% wrong in thinking that they lose control over the gun issue, however. It is all stipulated in the law. How hard is that to understand? It isn't you who is being discriminated against, but your gun. Your gun has no rights and your right to carry a gun in somebody else's business stops at the door if that is what they wish.

A business loses certain rights being open to the public and the public loses certain rights when going onto the property of another individual or entity.

Explain what rights are lost.

Free speech. Bad mouth a business on their property and see what happens. Continually have vocal outbursts in a movie theater and see what happens. Preach in mall and see what happens.

You do not lose your right to free speech. The businesses have the right to kick you out is what happens. You can be asked to leave and you can go on bad mouthing or preaching.

Javier730 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:

Double Naught Spy wrote:For those of you who think that when a business opens their private property doors to the public that they lose some of their private property rights, you are 100% correct.

You are also 100% wrong in thinking that they lose control over the gun issue, however. It is all stipulated in the law. How hard is that to understand? It isn't you who is being discriminated against, but your gun. Your gun has no rights and your right to carry a gun in somebody else's business stops at the door if that is what they wish.

A business loses certain rights being open to the public and the public loses certain rights when going onto the property of another individual or entity.

Explain what rights are lost.

Free speech. Bad mouth a business on their property and see what happens. Continually have vocal outbursts in a movie theater and see what happens. Preach in mall and see what happens.

You do not lose your right to free speech. The businesses have the right to kick you out is what happens. You can be asked to leave and you can go on bad mouthing or preaching.

You are playing with semantics. No you haven't lost your true free speech rights, but you don't have the same "rights" on private property that you have on your property or most public property.