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srothstein wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:09 am Our malpractice insurance rates have gone sky high also. That is because the people are finding lawyers to sue for almost anything. And we all know that even if you win the lawsuit, defending against it is expensive. This is also contributing to the cost of medical care.

For surgeons, medical malpractice insurance premiums typically range between $30K and $50K a year, but that all depends on the specialty, the number of procedures performed per year, and the location. In 2017, premiums for OB/GYNs ranged from $50K a year to a high of $215K in New York in Nassau and Suffolk counties for a standard $1M/$3M policy, not expanded policies. Neurosurgeons and ER surgeons can be right up there in premiums with OB/GYNs. There are several reasons for the Association of American Medical Colleges forecasting a shortage in the U.S. of up to 121,900 physicians within 12 years, but malpractice insurance cost is one thing making the profession look less attractive to those now in college. And another sobering thought: within a decade, 33% of all currently active doctors will be older than 65.

srothstein wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:09 am

03Lightningrocks wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:57 amThinking about how absolutely ridiculous that number is. 25K a day is just out and out thievery. The medical complex are bigger thieves than anybody. No wonder insurance rates are so high.

I think the medical rates are outrageous, but at least part of it is the insurance companies fault. They will only pay a (sometimes small) fraction of the bill. To get paid fairly quickly the doctor has to join the insurance company network which means he agrees to discounts, usually over 50%. Then they argue what is covered and what isn't. And if out of network, you get to bill the whole amount but most insurance companies require the patient to pay a much larger portion. Getting that from the patient can be hard. So, being a good businessman, the list price goes up to make sure they get enough to make their profit. If I knew I was only going to average 45% collection on all bills, I would either raise my prices until i was making a profit at that collection rate or shut down and find a business which had a better collection rate.

Our malpractice insurance rates have gone sky high also. That is because the people are finding lawyers to sue for almost anything. And we all know that even if you win the lawsuit, defending against it is expensive. This is also contributing to the cost of medical care.

I would love to see us go back to the old days where people only carried major medical insurance and you worked with the doctor himself for the average bill. And most doctors would work with you on it. I don't see it happening anytime soon though.

Yep. A few years ago I had an MRI done for a neck injury. The hospital billed the MRI at around 10K. The insurance paid them around 600 dollars. I wasn't responsible for the difference due to the insurance company contract stipulations but what it did tell me was that had I not had insurance, the hospital would have charged me 10K.

Rafe wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:22 am

srothstein wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:09 am Our malpractice insurance rates have gone sky high also. That is because the people are finding lawyers to sue for almost anything. And we all know that even if you win the lawsuit, defending against it is expensive. This is also contributing to the cost of medical care.

For surgeons, medical malpractice insurance premiums typically range between $30K and $50K a year, but that all depends on the specialty, the number of procedures performed per year, and the location. In 2017, premiums for OB/GYNs ranged from $50K a year to a high of $215K in New York in Nassau and Suffolk counties for a standard $1M/$3M policy, not expanded policies. Neurosurgeons and ER surgeons can be right up there in premiums with OB/GYNs. There are several reasons for the Association of American Medical Colleges forecasting a shortage in the U.S. of up to 121,900 physicians within 12 years, but malpractice insurance cost is one thing making the profession look less attractive to those now in college. And another sobering thought: within a decade, 33% of all currently active doctors will be older than 65.

I'm currently paying $21,000 a year for BCBS health insurance with a $1,500 per person deductible. There are no health issues with anyone. This covers 2 adults and 2 children.

Coronavirus (Covid- 19) Timeline

December 6, 2019 - Man linked to Wuhan market has pneumonia symptoms 5 days later his wife who did not go to the market has same symptoms, suggests human to human spread.
December 27, 2019 - Dr. Jhang Jixan reports novel disease 180 patients new coronavirus
December 31, 2019 - UofToronto discovers China censoring internet terms Wuhan, SARS,Seafood mkt.

January 01, 2020 - CNN did a story on a Dr. Li Wenliang in Wuhan, China who was reporting a bad virus.
January 03, 2020 - China National Heath Commission issue a gag order, Wuhan pneumonia samples moved and/or destroyed. No publication of scientific information on new virus.
January 05, 2020 - WHO releases tweet saying no human to human transmissions and no healthcare worker infections reported.
January 06, 2020 - US - CDC offers China technical assistance with virus, offer ignored.
January 14, 2020 - WHO reports limited human to human transmission potentially among families.
January 20, 2020 - First case in US in Everett, Washington
January 21, 2020 - WHO suggests human to human transmission is ocuring in Wuhan.
January 23, 2020 - China locks down Wuhan, but not planes leaving for other countries.
January 31, 2020 - Italy bans all flights from China. Trump declares a public health emergency.

Feb. 04, 2020 - U. S. Restricted flights from China.
Feb. 25, 2020 - Last day of Galveston Mardi Gras

March 03, 2020 - First day of Houston Rodeo
March 11, 2020 - Houston Rodeo canceled, WHO declares a Pandemic.
March 12, 2020 - Trump bans travel from Europe.
March 13, 2020 - Trump invoked emergency powers under Stafford Act and NEA.
March 15, 2020 - Schools in Houston closed.
March 16, 2020 - Trump issues the guideline to groups no more than 10 people, work at home or school
March 17, 2020 - Restaurants and Bars in Houston ordered to close
March 18, 2020 - Trump invoked emergency powers under Defense Production Act.
March 19, 2020 - Trump names FEMA lead agency in Covid-19 emergency.

March 22, 2020 - Sunday 318,662 world, 13,672 dead. 27,004 infected US,
347 dead. 53,578 Italy, 4,825 dead. 81,397 China. Texas has 557 with 5 deaths. Houston at 154.

March 25, 2020 - First day of Quarantine in Houston. Trump declares State of Emergency.

March 29, 2020 - 10:48 am. Sunday 684,652 cases worldwide with 32,113 dead. 124,763 infected US, 2,187 dead. 92,472 Italy with (no data) dead. 82,120 China (is anyone believing this). New York state has 53,520 with 834 deaths. Louisiana has 3,315 with 137 deaths. Texas has 2,535 with 34 deaths. Houston 810 with 6 deaths.

April 1, 2020 - End of first week of Quarantine in Houston.

April 5, 2020 12:46 pm. Sunday 1,249,107 cases worldwide with 67,999 dead. 256,059 recovered. USA 324,052 infected, 9,132 dead 16,789 recovered. 128,948 Italy with 15,362 dead. 130,759 Spain with 12,418 dead. China 82,602 with 3,333 dead (is anyone believing this). New York state has 122,056 with 4,159 deaths. New Jersey has 34,124 with 864 deaths. Louisiana has 12,496 with 409 deaths. Texas has 6,872 with 123 deaths. Houston 2,281(+252) with 35 deaths.

April 8, 2020 End of second week of Quarantine in Houston

April 12, 2020 11:19 am. (16hrs) Easter Sunday 1,800,791 (+30,277 average of +75,290 over 2 days) cases worldwide with 110,892 dead 412,777 recovered. USA 530,830 (+4,434 average of 39,862 over 2 days) infected, 20,646 dead 32,314 recovered, 82,809 JH hospitalized, 39,460 (+496) UofM hospitalized. 152,271 (+0) Italy with 19,468 dead. 166,019 (-15,007) Spain with 16,672 dead. China 83,134 with 3,343 dead (is anyone believing this). New York state has 181,825 (+11,067) with 8,650 deaths, 33,244 hospitalized. New Jersey has 58,151 with 2,183 deaths. California has 22,416 (+710) with 634 deaths. Louisiana has 20,014 (+0) with 806 deaths. Texas has 13,391(+368) with 273 deaths, 1514 hospitalized. Houston 5,289 (+6) with 82 deaths.

April 13, 2020 12:34 pm. (25hrs) 1,883,119 (+82,328) cases worldwide with 117,569 dead 443,816 recovered. USA 560,891 (+30,061) infected, 22,861 dead 42,033 recovered, 93,631 (+10,822) JH hospitalized, 39,437 (-23) UofM hospitalized. 159,516 (+7,245) Italy with 20,465 dead. 169,496 (+3,477) Spain with 17,489 dead. China 83,213with 3,345 dead (is anyone believing this). New York state has 190,288 (+8,463) with 10,056 deaths, 42,594 hospitalized. New Jersey has 61,850 with 2,350 deaths. California has 23,324 (+908) with 683 deaths. Louisiana has 20,595 (+581) with 840 deaths. Texas has 13,895(+368) with 296 deaths, 1338 hospitalized. Houston 5,403(+114) with 88 deaths.

April 14, 2020 11:58 am. (24hrs) 1,945,055 (+61,936) cases worldwide with 121,897 dead 465,752 recovered. USA 584,073 (+23,182) infected, 24,485 dead 44,319 recovered, 95,624 (+1,993) JH hospitalized, 39,437 (-23) UofM hospitalized. 159,516 (+0) Italy with 21,067 dead. 172,541 (+3,045) Spain with 18,056 dead. China 83,306 with 3,345 dead (is anyone believing this). New York state has 196,146 (+5,858) with 10,834 deaths, 42,712 hospitalized. New Jersey has 64,584 with 2,443 deaths. California has 24,392 (+1068) with 732 deaths. Louisiana has 21,016 (+421) with 884 deaths. Texas has 14,526 (+631) with 317 deaths, 1176 hospitalized. Houston 5,629 (+226) with 96 deaths.

April 15, 2020 11:58 am. (24hrs) 2,008,850 (+63,795) cases worldwide with 129,045 dead 502,389 recovered. USA 610,774 (+26,701) infected, 26,119 dead 50,079 recovered, 101,768 (+6,144) JH hospitalized, 42,228 (+2790) UofM hospitalized. 162,488 (+2,972) Italy with 21,067 dead. 177,633 (+5,092) Spain with 18,579 dead. China 83,356 with 3,346 dead (is anyone believing this). New York state has 203,377 (+7,231) with 10,842 deaths, 46,201 hospitalized. New Jersey has 68,824 with 2,805 deaths. California has 25,779 (+1,387) with 790 deaths. Louisiana has 21,518 (+502) with 1,013 deaths. Texas has 15,343 (+817) with 362 deaths, 1,409 hospitalized. Houston 5,926 (+297) with 106 deaths.

April 15, 2020 End of third week of Quarantine in Houston.

April 16, 2020 11:08 pm. (35 hrs) 2,158,250 (+149,400) cases worldwide with 144,221 dead 543,999 recovered. USA 671,331 (+60,557) infected, 33,268 dead 56,017 recovered, 108,942 (+7,174) JH hospitalized, 42,228 (+2790) UofM hospitalized. 168,941 (+6,453) Italy with 22,170 dead. 184,948 (+7,315) Spain with 19,315 dead. China 83,428 with 3,346 dead (is anyone believing this). New York state has 223,691 (+20,314) with 14,832 deaths, 50,450 hospitalized. New Jersey has 75,317 with 3,518 deaths. California has 28,091 (+2,312) with 973 deaths. Louisiana has 22,532 (+1,014) with 1,156 deaths. Texas has 17,235 (+1,892) with 427 deaths, 1,459 hospitalized. Houston 6,473 (+547) with 122 deaths.

April 17, 2020 12:04 pm. (13 hrs) 2,188,194 (+89,672 average over 2 days) cases worldwide with 147,632 dead 560,177 recovered. USA 672,293 (+30,759 average over 2 days) infected, 33,325 dead 56,243 recovered, 109,494 (+3,863 average over 2 days) JH hospitalized, 42,228 (+2790) UofM hospitalized. 168,941 (+3,226 average over 2 days) Italy with 22,745 dead. 184,948 (+3,655 average over 2 days) Spain with 19,478 dead. China 83,769 with 4,636 (+1,290 found bodies at home) dead (is anyone believing this). New York state has 223,691 (+10,157 average over 2 days) with 15,405 deaths, 50,450 hospitalized. New Jersey has 75,317 with 3,518 deaths. California has 28,157 (+1,189 average over 2 days) with 973 deaths. Louisiana has 22,532 (+507 average over 2 days) with 1,156 deaths. Texas has 17,263 (+960 average over 2 days) with 429 deaths, 1,459 hospitalized. Houston 6,501 (+287 average over 2 days) with 125 deaths.

For detailed information on Texas see https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/ops ... b9cafc8b83 For worldwide information on Covid-19
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6
For Covid-19 hospital admissions https://carlsonschool.umn.edu/mili-misr ... ng-project
For FOX timeline https://www.foxnews.com/world/timeline- ... us-coverup
[/quote]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/loc ... 145087002/

MADISON - A high school sophomore sued the Marquette County sheriff Thursday after he threatened to take her or her family to jail for her post on Instagram warning that she believed she had been infected with coronavirus.

The lawsuit, filed in federal court in Milwaukee with the help of the conservative Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty, argues the jail threat violated the teen’s right to free speech. The case raises questions about First Amendment protections in the middle of a pandemic.

The Annoyed Man wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:12 pm https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/loc ... 145087002/

MADISON - A high school sophomore sued the Marquette County sheriff Thursday after he threatened to take her or her family to jail for her post on Instagram warning that she believed she had been infected with coronavirus.

The lawsuit, filed in federal court in Milwaukee with the help of the conservative Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty, argues the jail threat violated the teen’s right to free speech. The case raises questions about First Amendment protections in the middle of a pandemic.

Good for her. Outrageous.

Shouting fire in a theater, when there is or you believe there is a fire is not a crime.

Bill O’Reilly pens this piece today.

China’s Bio weapon, and Pelosi..
My wife Angie will tell you that I study history and world events fluently every day. I have studied China for many years. To get answers I need to questions, I call many I know in Washington on Capitol Hill (from my tenure on two Presidential campaigns and Presidential talks) and I ask them for straight up answers to better understand what affects us as a nation.

Well, in 2016 America elected a new Sheriff: Donald J Trump. For decades the Chinese walked all over America but the new President said “not anymore”. Trump literally strangled China’s economy to the point their economy was in its worst free fall ever. Trump negotiated a new 50 billion trade agreement. He had Xi by the proverbial balls. America’s economy was on fire and unstoppable. President Xi Jingping knew he could not beat the USA militarily and he knew any domesticated economic attack would fail as our economy was too strong. He had to act. But how?

Enter the USA democrats led by Pelosi and Schiff. Impeachment. A hoax. A distraction for our people and President. Xi Jingping and his thugs see this. They aren’t stupid. They have very intelligent intellectual thinkers in their government. Now you must understand , the Chinese regime are truly Barbarians. Notice I did not say ALL CHINESE. The Chinese people are a good people. I enjoy my interactions with them.

The communist regime has millions of its own citizens slaving in gulags simply for speaking against the government or openly practicing Christianity. Knowing they could not attack us openly they needed to be coy, like a deceptive fox. In my opinion, I believe the regime released a biological weapon upon the world that doesn’t kill everyone, but kills “enough,” especially the elderly and in-firmed. Back in WW 2 Hitler thought the same way. He got rid of what he considered the useless and rejects of society.

Trumps task force uses models to figure things. Xi used and uses “models” too. China's president figured that if he killed a few of his own (a few hundred thousand to them would be a few out of 1.4 billion people) and spread the virus to other nations (especially to the USA) they would “level the economic playing field” and not have fired a shot.

Losses of his own people were acceptable costs of a new war. When China’s own doctors attempted to sound the warning, they were immediately silenced. In fact one died and another has simply disappeared. Trump and the other allied leaders indeed KNOW this is what happened. They have under reported their own deaths. Trump knows he cannot outrightly seek retribution. His news conference today showed me this when he balked publicly about no outright retribution over Xi’s handling of this and he immediately brought up the “trade deal”. However, Trump wasn’t being weak, he too was now being coy. We know this was a biological weapon. The food market story is nonsense.

Xi knows we know it. Trump also today announced he sent two battle groups of destroyers and other ships to sea several days ago to fight drugs and rogue actors like Iran should they try anything.

I say he did this to show Xi he knows what has transpired (we have the greatest intelligence assets) and that they (the Chinese) should rethink further action. Politics is premier. We cannot overtly attack China for what they have done as we would also suffer greatly. We all know this.

But China has temporarily achieved its goal. America was literally consumed by Trumps phony impeachment brought by the ultra left democrats (supported by democrat rank and file and one Republican Mitt Romney) and Xi Jingping saw an opening. He took it. Xi did what Trump usually does...he walked onto the world stage and threw a grenade into the “room” and left. It exploded in the form of this worldwide pandemic. It brought the USA and the rest of the world to its knees and leveled the economic playing field.

Our economy is now near depression. Xi didn’t fire one bullet. Trump needed to up his game of chess and putting our Naval ships to sea was his next move. He said he is a “war” President. He is.

But now on not one but two fronts. One front is the virus and the other front is the Chinese. While the Saudi’s and Russians are screwing with oil prices they aren’t overtly doing what this pandemic is doing. The drug smuggling story for dispatching the Naval Force is nonsense and the world knows it. I am of the opinion Trump can indeed bring us back from this catastrophe albeit with a changed playing field.

But Trump is a genius in chess and financial matters. He’s become a champ at international politics too. I am sure Trump can once again lead the economy to even stronger strength and greatness the it was . He can do it quickly I’m sure of it. He has proved it. Xi Jingping needs to be sent a message loud and clear. NEVER AGAIN. We need to bring all of our critical manufacturing back from China beginning with our medicines they were recently threatening to withhold. We can do it immediately. Again, another reason for Trump putting to sea such a sizable Naval Force. Sending a clear message.

We all must ride out the next few weeks. Then we and the world pick up the pieces and move on. The democrats who have given Xi this opening wrapped in a bow must pay a heavy price in November as they (the democrats) truly have cost and continue to cost America precious lives by the phony scandals. Nancy Pelosi continues to help the Chinese by her daily shameless attacks upon the President and meddling in stimulus packages as she did this last weekend. Yesterday’s statements she made were truly appalling and the lowest of low. I didn’t think she could go any lower. What a disgrace she is to our nation.

But, Pelosi aside, make no mistake, China must and will be taught a lesson the likes they have never seen before and Trump is the man to pull the trigger.

We the people must teach the democrats the same lesson at the polls. They (the radical wing of the party) are the enemy of a free America. I am certain of it. The entire democrat party of our forefathers is dead. Remember people, Trump indeed tried to warn us all of the Conavirus in his State of the Union Speech. He spoke of it. He said he was on top of it.

After he spoke , Nancy Pelosi ripped up the speech calling Trumps words “a manifesto of lies”. She disgraced the country and all of our fellow honored citizens present in the House Chamber. Well she now has American blood on her hands. She is very majorly responsible for these needless deaths as well as the Chinese. Her and Adam Schiff.

The left and democrats laughed as she tore up his speech. Well, as they laughed the disease he just spoke of in that speech came to our shores. Republicans and Democrats alike are now dying. Your family members and mine. Our grandparents and middle aged citizens alike. Bodies are being loaded in trucks with forklifts in Brooklyn outside of hospitals. No one is safe. Our liberty is for the most part suspended. As we bury our dead (without proper funerals) from this calamity let’s drive the nails into the coffin of the Democrat party as well in November.

It’s time people. Stand up for your rights and your country! Our Liberty and survival is at stake! I am praying for God’s blessing on our nation. But, God also gave us the ability to think for ourselves and it’s time we placed blame for all this death where it belongs: on the doorsteps of Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff and Xi Jingping directly. Wake Up America. WAKE UP!

Written by: Bill O'Reilly

FYI, O'Reilly didn’t write that. It apparently first appeared as a Facebook post by someone named Jack Chapin, and has been misattributed to O'Reilly. For once, I’m inclined to believe Snopes, as the writing style doesn’t "sound" like O'Reilly's.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill- ... rus-essay/

In an interesting development, it appears that a lot more people might have had coronavirus than was previously though. Study shows 85 times as many people had the antibodies as had reported cases.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavi ... esearchers

I think there are several possibilities, and that many people having had the virus and not knowing it is just one. I tend to think that if that is the correct interpretation, then the virus is not nearly as bad as was reported, which is not good news for what we did to our economy. It is good news for the future though. But it could just be that the test is also faulty, which makes the results meaningless. It could mean most people who are exposed have better immune systems and never really got the virus. That raises the question of if they were ever contagious if the antibodies were produced so quickly that they never really got sick. I doubt that because I would think more people would have gotten sick if that many contagious people were walking around.

philip964 wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:47 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:12 pm https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/loc ... 145087002/

MADISON - A high school sophomore sued the Marquette County sheriff Thursday after he threatened to take her or her family to jail for her post on Instagram warning that she believed she had been infected with coronavirus.

The lawsuit, filed in federal court in Milwaukee with the help of the conservative Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty, argues the jail threat violated the teen’s right to free speech. The case raises questions about First Amendment protections in the middle of a pandemic.

Good for her. Outrageous.

Shouting fire in a theater, when there is or you believe there is a fire is not a crime.

I'm beginning to see reports now of people getting $50,000 bills for their coronavirus treatments, particularly if it involved ICUs and/or ventilators. It can go as high as $80K in some cases.

Health care is insane; I don't know where this is going. Take an ordinary ECG of your heart. A Medical Assistant making $8/hr. sticks some electrodes on your chest. They come in boxes of 500, like half a cent each. The MA runs the ECG machine, which cost $399, for a few seconds. It prints out the ECG on some graph paper. The graph paper comes in 100-ft. rolls that cost a few dollars each (in cases of a dozen).

Then comes the bill: ECG - $820.
Then the beauty. The physican grabs the printout, glances at it and says, "yeah, looks OK" and tosses it on the table.
"ECG interpretation: $375"

This is just beyond comprehension.

Ruark wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:59 pm I'm beginning to see reports now of people getting $50,000 bills for their coronavirus treatments, particularly if it involved ICUs and/or ventilators. It can go as high as $80K in some cases.

Health care is insane; I don't know where this is going. Take an ordinary ECG of your heart. A Medical Assistant making $8/hr. sticks some electrodes on your chest. They come in boxes of 500, like half a cent each. The MA runs the ECG machine, which cost $399, for a few seconds. It prints out the ECG on some graph paper. The graph paper comes in 100-ft. rolls that cost a few dollars each (in cases of a dozen).

Then comes the bill: ECG - $820.
Then the beauty. The physican grabs the printout, glances at it and says, "yeah, looks OK."
"ECG interpretation: $375"

This is insane, just beyond comprehension.

A bit oversimplified, but either way- that $375 is an absolute bargain when something isn't right.

Those costs aren't just because of Coronavirus... spend a week in ICU on a vent for any reason and the bills are astronomical. But hey- I'll take $80k and my life over dying, any day of the week. What's the worst case scenario?... a few years of payments on a negotiated settlement? bankruptcy? How much of the 80K falls in to insurance? I would think 80%-ish most, based on what my plan looks like. I'd love it to be cheaper but it's not a simple fix. A buddy of mine is a surgeon and he pays more in malpractice premiums than most people make in salary.

I think minimum wage was $8 about 20 yrs ago.

Ruark wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:59 pm I'm beginning to see reports now of people getting $50,000 bills for their coronavirus treatments, particularly if it involved ICUs and/or ventilators. It can go as high as $80K in some cases.

Health care is insane; I don't know where this is going. Take an ordinary ECG of your heart. A Medical Assistant making $8/hr. sticks some electrodes on your chest. They come in boxes of 500, like half a cent each. The MA runs the ECG machine, which cost $399, for a few seconds. It prints out the ECG on some graph paper. The graph paper comes in 100-ft. rolls that cost a few dollars each (in cases of a dozen).

Then comes the bill: ECG - $820.
Then the beauty. The physican grabs the printout, glances at it and says, "yeah, looks OK" and tosses it on the table.
"ECG interpretation: $375"

This is just beyond comprehension.

Medical insurance is one of the reasons that it all costs so much. I have read before that doctors and hospitals do not expect to get the amount that they charge. Each provider decides how much they will cover for any given procedure, often some percentage. So, in essence, the docs and hospitals OVER-charge so they can get something close to what they really want to get for the procedure, whatever it may be. That's a big problem because no one is then sure how much something should really cost. Medical insurance has inflated all the prices for everything medical-related. I'm sure some of the insiders know, but not us "regular folks".

srothstein wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:44 pm In an interesting development, it appears that a lot more people might have had coronavirus than was previously though. Study shows 85 times as many people had the antibodies as had reported cases.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavi ... esearchers

I think there are several possibilities, and that many people having had the virus and not knowing it is just one. I tend to think that if that is the correct interpretation, then the virus is not nearly as bad as was reported, which is not good news for what we did to our economy. It is good news for the future though. But it could just be that the test is also faulty, which makes the results meaningless. It could mean most people who are exposed have better immune systems and never really got the virus. That raises the question of if they were ever contagious if the antibodies were produced so quickly that they never really got sick. I doubt that because I would think more people would have gotten sick if that many contagious people were walking around.

I have been saying this for weeks. I do believe many more of us have had it than what we realize.

K.Mooneyham wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:48 pm

Ruark wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:59 pm I'm beginning to see reports now of people getting $50,000 bills for their coronavirus treatments, particularly if it involved ICUs and/or ventilators. It can go as high as $80K in some cases.

Health care is insane; I don't know where this is going. Take an ordinary ECG of your heart. A Medical Assistant making $8/hr. sticks some electrodes on your chest. They come in boxes of 500, like half a cent each. The MA runs the ECG machine, which cost $399, for a few seconds. It prints out the ECG on some graph paper. The graph paper comes in 100-ft. rolls that cost a few dollars each (in cases of a dozen).

Then comes the bill: ECG - $820.
Then the beauty. The physican grabs the printout, glances at it and says, "yeah, looks OK" and tosses it on the table.
"ECG interpretation: $375"

This is just beyond comprehension.

Medical insurance is one of the reasons that it all costs so much. I have read before that doctors and hospitals do not expect to get the amount that they charge. Each provider decides how much they will cover for any given procedure, often some percentage. So, in essence, the docs and hospitals OVER-charge so they can get something close to what they really want to get for the procedure, whatever it may be. That's a big problem because no one is then sure how much something should really cost. Medical insurance has inflated all the prices for everything medical-related. I'm sure some of the insiders know, but not us "regular folks".

No exactly. Medical payments to providers are decided by a predetermined rate per procedure. So when a provider joins a medical insurance network, they are given a list of how much the insurance will pay for each procedure. It does not matter what the doctor tries to bill, the insurance will only pay the predetermined rate for the procedure. Providers like to bill a ridiculous amount all the while knowing they will only be paid a set amount in order to show that the patient received a discount of the difference. The procedure rates are set according to regional averages.

Medical insurance is only one of the reasons. Fraud, malpractice insurance, and lack of independent doctors (they are mainly all a part of large companies now) are the bigger reasons.