Round Count/Placement when responding

[BrassMonkey]

Hey all,
So let's assume the decision has been made to neutralize a human. Is there a best practice or "standard" number of rounds/placement for the initial neutralization attempt? IDPA seems to like Mozambiques, or 2 to COM and 1 to the head.

It's my presumption that once the decision has been made, one would be on autopilot for the initial volley, then reasses if they are not neutralized.

My question stems from wondering what I should be practicing for quick draw, speed rock, whatever you wanna call it.

One side of me says 1 shot and reasses so as not to go overboard, the other says 2 shots doubles my chances of accomplishing the task quickly lessening the time that innocents could be hit either by me or the target.

P.S. By "autopilot" i mean the actually trigger work, not the SA.

Thanks!

Your loyal Monkey...

[txinvestigator]

I think you should fire until the threat ceases to be one. I also think that two shots gives you more than double what one shot does.

I practice with varied number of shots, but usually no more than three; although, occasionally I will fire more. I like to train with a partner who can yell things like, "he's still coming" "he's down........he is trying to shoot you again!', etc.

I always stay on target after whatever initial shots I fire, thinking to myself, "is he down?"

Good on you for thinking about this stuff.

[BrassMonkey]

Thanks txi, good to hear from ya! :-)

It sounds like 2 to COM would be a great place to start.

I'm not real big on head shots. Smaller target, messier, gives the appearance of, well, a different type of encounter, I can see the headlines now, Lots of uses of the words, "Assasination or Execution style shooting"...

You're right, perhaps it is now time for me to find a regular shooting partner since I have always been solo...

[Kyle(Houston)]

Hey all,
So let's assume the decision has been made to neutralize a human. Is there a best practice or "standard" number of rounds/placement for the initial neutralization attempt? IDPA seems to like Mozambiques, or 2 to COM and 1 to the head.

It's my presumption that once the decision has been made, one would be on autopilot for the initial volley, then reasses if they are not neutralized.

I like what Charles teaches in his NRA classes. You really should not stop shooting until the threat is neutralized. This could change in any given situation. Maybe the threat would stop with just the presentation of a gun, maybe the threat would stop with one shot to COM, or maybe the threat would not stop even after emptying 2 mags into it. You will not know until that situation comes up.

If you double tap and stop to reassess, that could give the threat enough time to return fire, get to cover, get to you, etc...

[txinvestigator]

If you double tap and stop to reassess, that could give the threat enough time to return fire, get to cover, get to you, etc...

I especially hate seeing people that ONLY do that. Since that is all they do, on the street they will likely do the same, possibly to no effect.

[BrassMonkey]

Thanks Kyle, I understand.

But what I am asking is there has to be some measure of autopilot here. Something that is muscle memory and second nature.

For example, when I am flying, if I lose an engine, I follow a checklist that is commited to memory, you do not think about it once you have identified that the engine is dead. In fact, military pilots and some commercial pilots practice what is called "switchology" They put a bag on their head and go thru their checklists and switches without looking. After the checklist is complete, if there is still a problem, THEN you think about other things to do/look at/respond to.

I guess I am trying to accomplish the same thing here. I am only talking about that initial series of bangs.

My Checklist:
1. Decision made
2. Hand on gun
3. Press and pull
4. Sight picture
5. Shoot
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 X times

Help me fill in step 6

Joe :-)

[Venus Pax]

I practice with varied number of shots, but usually no more than three; although, occasionally I will fire more. I like to train with a partner who can yell things like, "he's still coming" "he's down........he is trying to shoot you again!', etc.

This sounds like an excellent idea.

[Crossfire]

My Checklist:
1. Decision made
2. Hand on gun
3. Press and pull
4. Sight picture
5. Shoot
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 X times

Help me fill in step 6

Joe :-)

You already have step 6. Step 1 should be "place bag on head".

Actually, I think you have a good, well thought, drill. But, under stress, I would bet it turns into "shoot, and keep shooting until threat is neutralized or magazine is empty, then reassess"

[BrassMonkey]

My Checklist:
1. Decision made
2. Hand on gun
3. Press and pull
4. Sight picture
5. Shoot
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 X times

Help me fill in step 6

Joe :-)

You already have step 6. Step 1 should be "place bag on head".

Actually, I think you have a good, well thought, drill. But, under stress, I would bet it turns into "shoot, and keep shooting until threat is neutralized or magazine is empty, then reassess"

Oh no you didn't...

What I am trying to avoid is shoot til empty, 18 rounds into a bg would not look good, lol... Yes, I will land all 18. Just call me Wyatt Earp!!!

[frankie_the_yankee]

I've never had to point a gun at anyone, so I'm just guessing at this. But I think that there isn't a single pat answer for how many times you should fire.

Some threats will be neutralized when they first catch sight of your gun and run for the tall grass. These require ZERO shots.

Others will absorb multiple hits to the torso and keep fighting, due to either drugs or the wearing of body armor.

And everything in between.

Think of the sicko that shot up the courthouse and town square in (I think) Tyler, TX a year or two ago. An armed citizen, and frequent competitive shooter as I recall, centerpunched him a couple of times with a 45 only to have the armor-clad BG pop up off the ground and shoot him dead.

So from where I sit, 'shoot until the threat is neutralized' seems like all that can be said on the subject.

[BrassMonkey]

Kewl, I got it...

Hey Frankie,
If I ever have to make the decision, there will be no time for her to run. I do not threaten. I do not play games. I will also never draw unless absolutely necessary. I really don't want to neutralize another human being. A deer on the other hand... Man, someone needs to take me hunting. :-)

[BrassMonkey]

And if a couple to the torso don't do it, I am going for the femoral artery. You hit the femoral in the upper pelvic region, they drop almost immediately and if they don't behave, they stop permenantly.

[Wildscar]

Help me fill in step 6

Short version

X = Threat is still a threat

[AFJailor]

Well, from what I have been taught and what I have read, a shot to the heart still gives the target up to 15 seconds to kill you. However, a shot to the pelvis can tear arteries, break the bones in the pelvis and cause an individual to double over, ceasing the action that caused you to shoot. Also with a shot to the pelvis you dont have to worry as much about missing unless your a very bad shot. As far as how many rounds to shoot, I will keep shooting until the target doesnt have the slightest chance of harming me or anyone else.

[Liberty]

And if a couple to the torso don't do it, I am going for the femoral artery. You hit the femoral in the upper pelvic region, they drop almost immediately and if they don't behave, they stop permanently.

The heart is about the size of a fist. Femoral artery the size of a pencil. the brain core a large plum.