TexasCHLforum.com

45 4 life wrote:The job keeps me traveling and for the most part long term travel. I am currently in Indiana and have been since last February.

There is a different permit here that once you have the unlimited permit you may carry concealed or open. I have not witnessed a single open carry since I arrived outside of the gun range.

So you've been there since Feb. and have not seen a single person OCing except at gun ranges? If so, I would say that open carry is pretty rare in IN. Would you agree?

I know that if I were in Texas, in a rural area around a bunch of farmers I would see some OC.
That is what is making me a little nervous. It is hard to get a read on the attitude here.
Do know this, I did my homework and know were not to carry, and I am always concealed. I do not think my Texas CHL allows me to open carry here.

45 4 life wrote:I know that if I were in Texas, in a rural area around a bunch of farmers I would see some OC.
That is what is making me a little nervous. It is hard to get a read on the attitude here.
Do know this, I did my homework and know were not to carry, and I am always concealed. I do not think my Texas CHL allows me to open carry here.

You probably wouldn't see much nonLEO OC in rural Texas, while some might carry while working their ranches and forms, it would be unlikely you notice them OCing. Open carry in public is generally illegal here in Texas.

Here's the answer from my brother:

Indiana has 2 permits. Hunting and target and Personal Protection. Open carry is ok in Indiana, and is required by the Hunting and Target permit. But is not recommended for those with the Personal Protection Permit. The Personal Protection Permit is the permit that allows concealed carry. If you don’t look like a hunter or are near a range? Open carry can get you tackled by Police Officers until they find out why you have the gun. It also causes many calls to E911 centers about the strange person who has a GUN! So, as long as you have the Personal Protection Permit, almost all sources recommend concealed carry. This way legitimate carries don’t generate tons of E911 calls and police activity. Recently Indiana’s Personal Protection Permit was made available as a one time for life permit. In the past it had to be renewed every few years.

Not sure if your Texas permit would allow open carry or not. I'd guess it would, but I'm not likely to open carry anyway for the reasons noted above.

Zero_G wrote:Here's the answer from my brother:

Indiana has 2 permits. Hunting and target and Personal Protection. Open carry is ok in Indiana, and is required by the Hunting and Target permit. But is not recommended for those with the Personal Protection Permit. The Personal Protection Permit is the permit that allows concealed carry. If you don’t look like a hunter or are near a range? Open carry can get you tackled by Police Officers until they find out why you have the gun. It also causes many calls to E911 centers about the strange person who has a GUN! So, as long as you have the Personal Protection Permit, almost all sources recommend concealed carry. This way legitimate carries don’t generate tons of E911 calls and police activity. Recently Indiana’s Personal Protection Permit was made available as a one time for life permit. In the past it had to be renewed every few years.

Gee, that's very different from what I read at opencarry.org.

I wonder who I should believe is giving a straighter story on this subject, opencarry.org posters or your brother?

Hmmmmm. That's a tough one.

.......

.......

.......

.......

Off the top of my head, I'd say...........

..........

..........

..........

...........................................................

.................. your brother.

Boy, that was a tough one.

Hey, Frankie, I have to ask: how common is it to see someone carrying a rifle in Texas? Do you dispute the legality based on how often you see it?

cbr600 wrote:You give greater weight to hearsay than first person accounts?

I give greater weight to what Zero G reports as info from his brother, and to 45 4 Life's 1st person account, than I do to what I read on opencarry.org.

This is for a lot of reasons.

One is the way they completely misrepresent the reality of open carry in RI, where I lived for 50 years. They show it as a "green" state (licensed open carry allowed) just like Indiana.

But they never mention that:

1) The law that allows for the licensed carrying of a handgun, "..whether concealed or not..", is intended to provide a means for uniformed security guards to be legally armed. This is not explicitly stated, but it is the reality.

and,

2) If you carry openly in RI without a uniform (signifying that you are a security guard) or a badge (signifying that you are LEO), YOU WILL BE ARRESTED. Every time.

Sure, they will let you go when they determine that your license is valid and that there is no violation they can charge you with. But if you do it again, they will arrest you again. (Your license might have been revoked in the last few days for all they know.)

That's because there is another part of RI law that the opencarry.org peopple seemed to have overlooked. That is the part that says they can arrest you anytime an officer has a reasonable belief that you might be violating a gun law, and hold you for 24 hours before either charging you or cutting you loose. Since only 1/2 of 1% of RI adults have pistol carry permits, a cop can reasonably believe that ANYONE he sees carrying a handgun is not likely to have a license, and arrest them.

And they push it to the limit. Just because you have a permit to show them doesn't mean anything. They will take you to the station and lock you up while they check with the AG's office to make sure your permit is still valid. And they drag this out for as long as the law allows, on purpose, so you will get the message.

One time, a bus driver, from his high perch, observed a guy adjusting the position of his holster while in his car in traffic, called the cops, and (after following him for a while and running his plate to make sure he wasn't a cop) they ended up doing a felony stop on the guy where they pulled him out of the car at gunpoint. The guy offered no resistance and was saying all the time, "I have a permit! I have a permit!."

You won't read a word about any of this on opencarry.org.

So to me, if they are so inaccurate in characterizing open carry in RI, what else are they inaccurate about?

When you read the IN posts, what you see is a single theme repeated over and over. A small number of people relate that have OC'd in various retail establishments and describe the reactions of store staff, management, and passersby. It all reads pretty weird to me. The people seem to have been OCing for the sake of OCing (i.e. to provoke reactions) rather than simply carrying a gun for personal protection as I and many others do.

Zero G's post and report from his brother, and also 45 4 Life's post have the ring of truth to me. I've been to Indianapolis a couple of times on business trips, and I never saw anyone OCing. 45 4 Life has been living there for 10 months + and hasn't seen anyone doing it either.

So based on all of that, I'd say that the OC people in Indiana are a little bit off of the normal curve.

KBCraig wrote:Hey, Frankie, I have to ask: how common is it to see someone carrying a rifle in Texas? Do you dispute the legality based on how often you see it?

Just don't wear black when you do it in Austin.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:Zero G's post and report from his brother, and also 45 4 Life's post have the ring of truth to me. I've been to Indianapolis a couple of times on business trips, and I never saw anyone OCing. 45 4 Life has been living there for 10 months + and hasn't seen anyone doing it either.

So based on all of that, I'd say that the OC people in Indiana are a little bit off of the normal curve.

I'd add that I lived there my first 35 years and never saw anyone open carry a handgun. I'll also throw in that my brother is a 4-H firearms program instructor teaching kids about guns as well as a hunter's education instructor.

I think the 'green light' for open carry comes mainly from the target and hunting permit. You can open carry (and reasonably be sure that you won't be jacked up by a LEO) if you are in the vicinity of a range or hunting. It doesn't mean you won't get picked up if you're walking around Monument Circle OC.

So, *can* you legally open carry, yeah, in theory.

*Should* you? Well, as my brother said, "please don't"

KBCraig wrote:Hey, Frankie, I have to ask: how common is it to see someone carrying a rifle in Texas? Do you dispute the legality based on how often you see it?

I have never (in 6 years) seen any non-LEO carrying an uncased rifle or shotgun in a urban metro area in TX. And for that matter, I've never seen anyone walking around little old Smithville (pop. approx. 4000) carrying a long gun openly.

It is quite clear that it is legal to do so. But as we see in the recent Austin incident, one would quite likely attract attention. (Probably a lot more in Austin than in Smithville)

And note that I did not and do not dispute the legality of carrying a long gun openly in TX or of openly carrying a handgun in RI or Indiana with the proper license.

I merely observe that contrary to the impression one might get from reading posts on opencarry.org, almost no one does it in urban metro areas, and those few who do can expect to attract attention - both wanted and unwanted.

And I believe that many of the people who post their experiences on opencarry.org are OCing because they want the attention, from both the sheeple and the cops. They want to educate both groups that OCing is legal and they are hoping that through familiarity they can gain social acceptance for it.

I also believe that a fair amount of the state by state info on opencarry.org is misleading and/or incorrect. People visiting areas that they are unfamiliar with can get themselves in some real hot water if they use that site as a source of information.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

cbr600 wrote:You give greater weight to hearsay than first person accounts?

Zero G's post and report from his brother, and also 45 4 Life's post have the ring of truth to me. I've been to Indianapolis a couple of times on business trips, and I never saw anyone OCing. 45 4 Life has been living there for 10 months + and hasn't seen anyone doing it either..

For crying out loud Frankie, please don't do this again.

Just because you and one other person (in ONE city no less) have not seen people OCing... then its clear to you it doesn't happen? Do we have to beat that horse again?

And heres one for you just to keep things straight:

Sturmgewehre
Member

Joined: Thu Jun 14th, 2007


I live in Valparaiso and I've been open carrying since I moved here in 2000. I've only been stopped once by a State Trooper in a White Castle. He asked if I had a permit and I said "yes". He didn't even ask to see it. He then said "why don't you cover that thing up, you're going to scare some old lady". I smiled and said "why don't you cover yours up?" He smiled back and said "it's a little different." I said "I don't see the difference, but I don't have anything to cover it up with nor do I feel inclined to do so unless you're giving me an order." He said he wasn't ordering me and walked off.

I told story to a local Sheriff I know who works at a local gun shop (Blythese Sports) this story and he said Indiana wasn't an open carry state. I argued with him and asked where he got this idea. He said our permits specified "concealed carry". I told him he was mistaken and showed him my permit which says clearly I have a right to carry a handgun and it doesn't specify how.

I spoke with the local Police Chief and he said "I don't care how you carry it, strap it to your forehead for all I care - just have a permit for it".

You are correct Liberty, I had planned to type If OC was legal in Texas I would certainly see it. (Bad Mourning at Work) There is a little that goes on in some areas I have been in but chaulk it up to the Good Ol Boys.

Thanks to Zero G. Your brothers information explains what I suspected. I did find another forum about OC in Indiana. There are some that is trying it. The permit issued is to "Carry a Handgun" not to "Carry a Concealed Handgun". Apparently they have the choice. It seems by the post, they are not always successful.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

KBCraig wrote:Hey, Frankie, I have to ask: how common is it to see someone carrying a rifle in Texas? Do you dispute the legality based on how often you see it?

And I believe that many of the people who post their experiences on opencarry.org are OCing because they want the attention, from both the sheeple and the cops. They want to educate both groups that OCing is legal and they are hoping that through familiarity they can gain social acceptance for it.

I also believe that a fair amount of the state by state info on opencarry.org is misleading and/or incorrect. People visiting areas that they are unfamiliar with can get themselves in some real hot water if they use that site as a source of information.

Would you care to post this over there, or are you only going to deride them from here?

flintknapper wrote: Just because you and one other person (in ONE city no less) have not seen people OCing... then its clear to you it doesn't happen? Do we have to beat that horse again?

I'm an animal lover. I don't like to beat horses or any other animal.

But see Zero G's post above. Lived there for 35 years and never saw it outside of in the field or at the range. I'll take his word over that of an OC proponent any day - because it matches up with what I and just about every other normal human being living in America has experienced their whole lives.

flintknapper wrote:
And heres one for you just to keep things straight:

Sturmgewehre
Member

Joined: Thu Jun 14th, 2007


I live in Valparaiso and I've been open carrying since I moved here in 2000. I've only been stopped once by a State Trooper in a White Castle. He asked if I had a permit and I said "yes". He didn't even ask to see it. He then said "why don't you cover that thing up, you're going to scare some old lady". I smiled and said "why don't you cover yours up?" He smiled back and said "it's a little different." I said "I don't see the difference, but I don't have anything to cover it up with nor do I feel inclined to do so unless you're giving me an order." He said he wasn't ordering me and walked off.

I told story to a local Sheriff I know who works at a local gun shop (Blythese Sports) this story and he said Indiana wasn't an open carry state. I argued with him and asked where he got this idea. He said our permits specified "concealed carry". I told him he was mistaken and showed him my permit which says clearly I have a right to carry a handgun and it doesn't specify how.

I spoke with the local Police Chief and he said "I don't care how you carry it, strap it to your forehead for all I care - just have a permit for it".

The guy sounds like some kind of a nut to me. The trooper was giving him some good advice. He should have taken it.

And I find the quote from the police chief interesting. "Strap it to your forehead for all I care." I can almost hear him add (to himself), "... you idiot."