TexasCHLforum.com

Hey all,
Too start things off I will begin with this, I have started carrying a handgun in my car since the new law passed on Sept. 1. Well today was the first time I have truely felt that I might have to use my handgun to protect myself from a motorist with an attitude problem.

It all started on N. Tarrant Pkwy, just a little West of 377 (Denton Hwy). My girlfriend and I were headed over to the gym to workout on N. Tarrant Pkwy and came upon on of the many driving 20 in a 50 in the fast lane. In the process of changing lanes I signaled and flashed my headlights as my car will allow your headlights to flash when you pull the left hand stick backwards (as most do this day). Apparently this person thought I was bright lighting him and proceeded to cut me off while passing him in the right lane and flipped me off in the process. Unfortunately as most of us do from time to time I was irritated and responded with a honk and a finger as well after passing him and changin back into the fast lane. About 3/4 a mile up we came to a redlight and I had a feeling this guy would catch up so I stayed in the left lane and tried to leave enough room to get out. Sure enough, he caught up and flipped me off, I responded with a clap and wave (I know I shouldnt have done this but it is hard to control yourself from time to time).

Well, he proceeded to step out of his vehicle aprox. 10ft back and I reached for my gun in the glovebox. Now this is where I need advice on how to proceed next time.

I rolled my window down 1/2 way and told him to step away from my car and get back in his. He proceeded with various insults and remarks, I again warned him to get away from my car and get back in his. I had my gun pointed at the door but out of his sight the whole time. The light turned green and I took off without further confrontation. It ended there.

Any suggestions on how I should have changed things?

medicff0879 wrote:Any suggestions on how I should have changed things?

You should have acted like an adult.

I used to flip the finger and do other things that I am now pretty ashamed of. Then, in the 1980s, drivers started to shoot other drivers. It became a nationwide epidemic for a while. I did the math: Flip a finger, catch a bullet. Grin and bear it, wake up to another sunrise.

You might want to look at this:
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... php?t=2423

- Jim

Grow a thicker skin. If you wind up having to shoot someone to defend yourself, after having "flipped him off" and escalated what was essentially a childish situation into a potential physical altercation, you may find your "self defense" justification very weak.

Please peruse this Forum - the people here know much more than I do and are better at communicating what they know.

Should you choose to take the CHL class you will receive instruction on when and under what circumstances you are legally justified in using lethal force. One thing that will (ought to) be emphasized (was each time I took the class and renewal class) is that you need to learn to walk away, to absorb a verbal insult and go about your business without responding in kind. If you escalate and the situation turns serious, you may find yourself in deep legal (not to mention ethical and moral) hot water.

Regards,
Andrew

Edit: I see Jim beat me to it. You would be wise to listen to him.

Any suggestions on how I should have changed things?

You should have never responded to any of his actions. You are lucky that he only got out of his car to confront you instead of driving up next to you and shooting both you and your passenger.

There are certain areas of the Metroplex where your actions would have escalated the situation to that level of response. The area where your incident occurred is not a "bad" area of town but you never know when "bad" people are passing through and will shoot you in a heart beat.

The good thing is that you realize that you probably didn't do the right thing so take it as a lesson.

These are great replies.

When carrying a firearm, you are taking on a new responsibility. One of those is to yourself and your emotions.

I suggest if you cannot keep from acting as you did in this instance, than you are not properly prepared to carry.

Let's say that this guy grabbed you through the window and you shot him. You may be found to have escalated the issue through your own actions (as witnessed by others) and thus held responsible for the outcome.

You will find a lot of great advice on this board and I applaud you for posting this question.

I hope that you understand that my answer (and others) is not intended as an attack on you, but a well though out response to a specific situation.

These were all the responses I was looking for. I hate that it happened and hate that I reacted the way I did.

I moved up here from East Texas where traffic was not as much of a big deal as it is here. I have lived in this area for a year now and really dont know how to react in traffic. I am a hasty driver to say the least and always have been. I just have a hard time learing to go around people and not taking it as an insult that they are in the fast lane driving 30 under and tying up 30 cars for two miles. There are some days I feel I can just blow it off, and others where I am edgy and in a hurry cause im late to work. I know these are all excuses, but do any of you experienced DFW drivers have some advice or methods to learn to deal with traffic?

As someone stated above, I have already taken the CHL class and they received the paperwork today. I feel my one area of weakness in carrying is the number one area in which most shootings occur up here, IN TRAFFIC!! I would never intentionally go on the offensive and I knew very well that today could have been construed as me escalating the situation when I should have let it go. Its funny how people that are normally non-confrontational change 180 when they step into their vehicle and become another person.

medicff0879 wrote:These were all the responses I was looking for. I hate that it happened and hate that I reacted the way I did.

This is step #1. Knowing that you were also in the wrong and that you could admit it as you did

There are some days I feel I can just blow it off, and others where I am edgy and in a hurry cause im late to work.

If you are in a hurry you must remember something. Not everyone else is, therefore not everyone will be driving like you. Work will still be there when you get there no matter how long it takes. Not to mention that you only save yourself just a few short minutes IF THAT. Next time you are in traffic pick out 2 other cars. Ones that stick out to you. Just relax and watch how all of you will, 9 out of 10 times, end up at the same place about the same time, even if you get seperated by a traffic light.
You being in a hurry or gettin mad wont change anything in any way to HELP you.

but do any of you experienced DFW drivers have some advice or methods to learn to deal with traffic?

I drive a Tow Truck in the Ft Worth area. We are always in a hurry. Our customers and our pay check depends on it for the most part. My best advice to this is......just suck it up and relax because you cant change it getting a temper in traffic only cause you to get more edgy and more angry. Ask yourself this.....does it do you any GOOD to get angry and put others in Danger? If you get mad that is fine BUT!!!! keep it to yourself. I will admit too, that has been a hard one for me to do myself but I think of it as a Life or Death or even Jail time if dont KEEP IT TO MYSELF.

As someone stated above, I have already taken the CHL class and they received the paperwork today. I feel my one area of weakness in carrying is the number one area in which most shootings occur up here, IN TRAFFIC!! I would never intentionally go on the offensive and I knew very well that today could have been construed as me escalating the situation when I should have let it go. Its funny how people that are normally non-confrontational change 180 when they step into their vehicle and become another person.

You said it yourself......LET IT GO

Thanks Target, look forward to seeing you out there.

Everything that I could say has been said except for this: Play some relaxing music. Headbanger music and hip-hop probably contribute to a lot of trouble.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:Everything that I could say has been said except for this: Play some relaxing music. Headbanger music and hip-hop probably contribute to a lot of trouble.

- Jim

I'd have to disagree with you on that one, whats relaxing to you may not be relaxing to others. Also I dont believe that listening to rap or metal contributes to aggression, no offense but I think that statement is a little silly. I think that when the music a person listens to or the games they play are blamed for their actions its just another way of taking the blame off of the individual. Irrational people are irrational by nature, whether they listen to Mozart or Killswitch engage.

AFJailor wrote:

seamusTX wrote:Everything that I could say has been said except for this: Play some relaxing music. Headbanger music and hip-hop probably contribute to a lot of trouble.

- Jim

I'd have to disagree with you on that one, whats relaxing to you may not be relaxing to others. Also I dont believe that listening to rap or metal contributes to aggression, no offense but I think that statement is a little silly. I think that when the music a person listens to or the games they play are blamed for their actions its just another way of taking the blame off of the individual. Irrational people are irrational by nature, whether they listen to Mozart or Killswitch engage.

I don't know what scientific studies have shown, but when music about killing cops and others over beefs is played so load that it hurts ones head 3 cars opver, it can't have much effect on lowering adreneline. I have heard of the a decline of civilization and morality as it relates to music. This time of year Christmas music is soothing to my psych. something about joy to the world, Peace on Earth, and new born kings tends to suck the aggression right out of me. Even makes me happy.

Hey, I like good old rock and roll, enjoy some times it makes me happy, but I would never concider it soothing or relaxing. Ludicrous isn't soothing , its not that folks don't enjoy it or that itr can put them in a good mood, but its not relaxing soothing or adrenelin reducing.

Liberty wrote:I don't know what scientific studies have shown, but when music about killing cops and others over beefs is played so load that it hurts ones head 3 cars opver, it can't have much effect on lowering adreneline.

You said it, man.

Music affects us on a deep level. When Stravinsky's Rite of Spring was first performed, the audience panicked and rioted. (I can't listen to it.) Hip-hop makes me want to lash out, and I'm one of the most laid-back people you will meet.

- Jim

YOU SAID" Its funny how people that are normally non-confrontational change 180 when they step into their vehicle and become another person.[/quote]

Jeff Gordon once said it best..." In the car, we're all 3800lbs." I drive I35w southbound evreyday and the traffic drives me bonkers. I have had to learn to deal with the NON DRIVERS that can't seem to run with the traffic flow. I too have been flipped off on occasion, mostly because I slice traffic when I can, SAFELY. Not all drivers accept that. Just let it go when it happens

I see in another thread that you are an EMT. As such, you have probably seen people who have been seriously injured; some so bad they did not / will not make it.

So for perspective - whenever you start to get "edgy" or angry, think about how bad it can get and how much worse that is, than whatever is getting on your nerves.

I'm not a calm person, but when I think about some of the bad things I've seen and experienced, I find myself being flat-out grateful. Grateful that I opened my eyes this morning, grateful that the sun came up, grateful for my wife waking up beside me, grateful for the warm cat pinning my legs so I can't get up and get coffee right away, grateful that my truck starts and runs, and grateful when I pull in the parking lot at work (safely) and shut it off.

Do I get angry at drivers who refuse to turn on their headlights in heavy fog, or heavy rain? Yes - they are putting my life, their own lives, and the lvies of everyone else on the road at risk. Do I act angry? No. I let it go so I don't add to the danger and the problem.

Your work as an EMT must be *at least 100 times* as stressful as anything you experience in traffic. So let the clinical detachment you use at work, to help you get to work, safely.

Regards,
Andrew