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another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:01 am
by jazr45acp
Don't you just love the comments made by the Chief of Police.
Make sure you watch you 6. Be safe gentlemen and ladies.
http://www.ksat.com/news/15115895/detail.html
SAN ANTONIO -- A 42-year-old man was shot during an attempted carjacking outside a restaurant near downtown Tuesday night.
Police said the man was at a Bill Miller's restaurant in the 4500 block of Broadway when a man approached his Ford Mustang.
Witnesses told police the suspected carjacker walked up to the vehicle and demanded the keys, but when the victim refused, he was shot in the lower back.
The victim was transported to Brooke Army Medical Center in an undetermined condition.
"The safest thing to do is give them whatever they want, because it's not worth your life," said San Antonio Police Chief William McManus.
The suspected carjacker has not yet been apprehended.
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:49 am
by Texian
jazr45acp wrote:Don't you just love the comments made by the Chief of Police.
"The safest thing to do is give them whatever they want, because it's not worth your life," said San Antonio Police Chief William McManus.
Are you saying that you would have resisted an armed assailant in this situation (victim was presumably unarmed) when presented with a demand for your car keys?
Of course, if the assailant demands that one should become his hostage and drive him away from the scene, then that would change everything and resistance would probably be the best option. IMO
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:39 am
by Rokyudai
That just
me to no end. I hope the guy recovers. That's just happening too close to home.
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:04 pm
by Lodge2004
Rokyudai wrote:That's just happening too close to home.
Agreed. Although I do not currently live in SA, it was my childhood home and we visit family there several times each year. Bill Miller BBQ is always on the agenda. It's not a fantastic restaurant, but one I visited often as a teenager with low cost meals and excellent sweet tea.
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:40 pm
by Rokyudai
Lodge2004 wrote:Rokyudai wrote:That's just happening too close to home.
Agreed. Although I do not currently live in SA, it was my childhood home and we visit family there several times each year. Bill Miller BBQ is always on the agenda. It's not a fantastic restaurant, but one I visited often as a teenager with low cost meals and excellent sweet tea.
And it's thugs similar to this one which ruin yours and my children from having fond memories of doing stuff like that. I wonder how many people will avoid that place now? Surely not long enough to do any financial damage to the chain but that's probably a convenient stop for many families and as you pointed out, it's a good low cost alternative. Incidents like this cause problems on many levels, not just the obvious toll on safety and preservation.
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:28 pm
by 4t5
Keys first, then 2+1.
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:16 pm
by Darwood
I'm thinking give him the keys... then perform a reverse carjack.
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:30 pm
by stevie_d_64
"The safest thing to do is give them whatever they want, because it's not worth your life," said San Antonio Police Chief William McManus.
Hey Chief, got something for ya...
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:50 pm
by dihappy
"The safest thing to do is drop the keys out the window so that when he bends down to pick them up, you can blast him through your car door with your .45. You know, because you should do anything a criminal asks you to do," said San Antonio Police Chief William McManus.
Right On Chief!!
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:40 pm
by srothstein
You have to remember who he is and where he came from. His career started as a DC cop where he spent over 20 years. Since then he has been a politically appointed chief in three cities (Dayton, Minneapolis, and San Antonio).
Besides the politics, it is obvious why he does not have a Texas outlook on things.
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:33 am
by 45 4 life
I no longer argue if you car is worth getting into a gun fight, risking your life, or taking anothers. However for those of you that maintain the idea of fighting. Keep a few things in mind.
1. Pick the right time to pull your weapon. Show it to soon and you may lose a gun and a car.
2. The time to shoot someone is not when they are locked, loaded, and pointing the gun at you. You may both be shot.
3. If you pull it use it. I do not think any of you have an issue here.
Unless the bad guy is very stupid, I like the idea of getting out showing every indications of doing what he wants, then reversing the situation if the opportunity presents itself. If he tells me to move over, the talking part is done, it is time for the gun fight.
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:07 am
by jazr45acp
45 4 life, I agree with ya. Too many folks are simply too eager to hand over whatever the BGs wants and hope for the best. Are you really wanting to place your safety in the hands of the BG who just pulled a gun or knife on you? We need to stop having the mindset of sheep and kick the wolves when you have the chance.
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:36 am
by Photoman
jazr45acp wrote:Don't you just love the comments made by the Chief of Police.
"The safest thing to do is give them whatever they want, because it's not worth your life," said San Antonio Police Chief William McManus.
The problem with that theory is that they no longer take the keys/car and go. They shoot you for fun after stealing your car.
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:41 am
by seamusTX
Photoman wrote:The problem with that theory is that they no longer take the keys/car and go. They shoot you for fun after stealing your car.
Either that or take you to an ATM and force you withdraw money. And if the victim is a woman ...
- Jim
Re: another carjacking gone bad
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:42 pm
by Texian
Here is a newspaper account of this incident that gives more detail.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/ ... 7e86b.html
Man recovering after attempted carjacking, shooting
Web Posted: 01/23/2008 11:51 PM CST
Karen Grace
KENS 5 Eyewitness News
An Iraq War veteran came face-to-face with an armed, would-be carjacker outside a Bill Miller Bar-B-Q restaurant on Broadway Tuesday night, and now, he's in the hospital with a gunshot wound and his family is explaining why he didn't just hand over his keys.
Glenn Goodrich's family says Goodrich thought if he had gotten out of the vehicle, it would have been worse.
"He was watching the news and he said, 'Wow, that looks like Glen's car,'" said Mindy Moore, Goodrich's sister.
Sure enough, it was her brother's Ford Mustang. When Goodrich refused to give up his car, the gunman shot him in the back through the window and then fled on foot.
"My brother actually went inside and called my mom, and said, 'Mom, I've been shot,'" Moore said.
Inside the restaurant, Goodrich also pleaded for help from the staff.
"When he went in, they didn't believe him," Moore said. "Some of the people started realizing he was telling the truth, and they, like, went on the ground in safety mode."
The staff called 911, and 42-year-old Goodrich was taken to Brooke Army Medical Center. The gunshot wound was dangerously close to vital organs.
"It's a miracle. I mean, millimeters away, they said, from the main artery or his spine," Moore said.
Many asked why he didn't just hand over the keys, but in the heat of the moment,
Goodrich thought staying inside the car was the safest bet.
"He said his instinct told him to stay in the car. He thought, 'If I get out, the guy would shoot (me) anyways,'" Moore said.
Police still need your help to find the gunman. Goodrich is stable and expected to be released from BAMC in a few days.
Nowhere in the account of this crime is there any mention of the victim being armed so the presumption must be that he was not.
The news story said, "the gunman shot him in the back through the window and then fled on foot."
Some posts assume that the victim was armed (and/or possessed special training to deal with an armed attack) even though nothing in the news articles suggest that that was the case.
"Keys first, then 2+1."
"I'm thinking give him the keys... then perform a reverse carjack."
"Pick the right time to pull your weapon."
"We need to stop having the mindset of sheep and kick the wolves when you have the chance."
In this case the victim resisted without having any tactical advantage at all with this result:
". . . but when the victim refused, he was shot in the lower back."
A few mm diference in the trajectory and he would be dead or paralyzed. That said, I stand by what I put in my earlier post:
Are you saying that you would have resisted an armed assailant in this situation (victim was presumably unarmed) when presented with a demand for your car keys?
Of course, if the assailant demands that one should become his hostage and drive him away from the scene, then that would change everything and resistance would probably be the best option. IMO
This is not an endorsement of the chief. It is agreement with his comment about this particular incident and circumstances. BTW, he did not indicate what he would recommend if this had turned into a hostage situation.