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I was at a bar (obviously a 51%) with a buddy a few weeks ago. I'm was the DD and he was having a pretty good time. My CH was in my truck in the door panel, which was parked in the parking lot. When we decided to leave, we found we were blocked in by another truck and my buddy kicked the other truck's tire out of frustration. It was reported to two TABC officers in the bar that my buddy damaged the truck. They came out to talk with us, but could find no damage. However, when the officer knocked on the window, I opened the door; put my hands up and told him, "I have a CHL." He asked if I was armed and I showed him where it was on the door. He disarmed me and finished his investigation. I have no problem with anything up to this point. After 30 minutes of investigation, he told me that he could take ME to jail for concealing at a 51%, and asked me if I knew what that was in a very insulting fashion (I think I know the law about my own CHL). I told him that I NEVER took the gun inside the bar and that it was in the truck until he removed it. He "informed" me that the parking lot was considered part of the bar and having a CH in the parking lot was the same as taking it in the bar. I was not from around there and there was definitely a "Good Ol' Boy" feel to the shake-down so instead of arguing I tried to explain that while ignorance is no defense, I had no idea the parking lot was considered as such. He let me go and I was ready to get out of there, but first I drove to every entrance to verify that there were no 30.06 sign anywhere. Please correct me, but I don't think I did anything wrong.
My question: Was I wrong, and what do I do now?
Was I at fault and he was lenient?
Let it go...No Harm, No Foul?
Notify the area TABC office that they have an officer who is mistaken about handgun laws so that it doesn't happen to someone else?
File a grievance?

Thanks for the input.

He was wrong about the parking lot, but I understand why he believes that. Case law and I believe the Alcoholic Beverage Code state that the parking lot would be part of the premises. This is precisely why the definition of "premises" found in TPC §46.035(f)(3) specifically excludes parking lot, among other things, and why it expressly states "building or portion of a building." The "bar" prohibition is found in TPC §46.035(b)(1).

So, you were right and he was wrong, but again, I know why a TABC guy would think that.

Chas.

TPC §46.035 wrote:§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.
. . .
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:

• (1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
  license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
  Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
  income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
  on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
  Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

. . .
(f) In this section:

• . . .
  (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a
  building. The term does not include any public or private driveway,
  street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other
  parking area.

Let me ask y'all this? Has anyone here (or anyone you know for that matter) ever had a pleasant outcome when dealing with a TABC officer? I find it sort of ironic that TABC officers are packing heat...to enforce alcohol laws...yes, I have contempt for this agency, I admit it...I do NOT consider them peace officers, only revenue/harassment officers (flame shield UP). I say this because of dealings with folks that I know about (business owners that sold alcohol and they had enough of TABC harassment of them and customers and they let their license go and went the "donation" route and from folks who've gotten the raw end of the Public Intox shaft). Rant off.

BTW - yeah, I'd probably try to track that guy down (no, not in a stalking way, but the local/regional TABC office) and file a complaint/letter citing the law.

I hold contempt for the few TABC officers I have come into contact with, but I don't want to generalize the entire field. I assume there are some good ones and some bads ones, but the only ones I have had dealings with were extremely rude, arrogant, and seemed to be on a power trip.

Thiggy wrote:I was at a bar (obviously a 51%) with a buddy a few weeks ago. I'm was the DD and he was having a pretty good time. My CH was in my truck in the door panel, which was parked in the parking lot.

My question for Thiggy is; were you drinking at the bar that night???

Lucky45 wrote:

Thiggy wrote:I was at a bar (obviously a 51%) with a buddy a few weeks ago. I'm was the DD and he was having a pretty good time. My CH was in my truck in the door panel, which was parked in the parking lot.

My question for Thiggy is; were you drinking at the bar that night???

From the highlighted section, I inferred not.

Absolutely not. I figured that question would come up, which is why I said that I was the DD. He initially asked how much I had had to drink (standard first question at a bar setting, I assume) and I said, "none." He believed me because, the issue of me possibly having drank any alcohol never came up again. If I think I might want a drink; my gun stays at home.

There is at least one good one, Stephen Rothstein, who posts here and will probably weigh in on this at some point.

That's it!!! Thanks, Kalrog. I haven't had anything to eat for the day, and my brain isn't clicking yet. So, I'm going to get some breakfast as I have been delaying too long. So, SLF I will TTYL whenever I GSTE. Bye.

Lucky45 wrote:

Thiggy wrote:I was at a bar (obviously a 51%) with a buddy a few weeks ago. I'm was the DD and he was having a pretty good time. My CH was in my truck in the door panel, which was parked in the parking lot.

My question for Thiggy is; were you drinking at the bar that night???

Since he was the DD....we should assume he either wasn't drinking or limited it to the degree that he felt it would not constitute intoxication. His condition was not questioned by the TABC officers.

He should be aware though, the term "intoxicated" does not have the same well defined meaning for Concealed Carry patrons as it does (.08) the rest of the populace.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:He was wrong about the parking lot, but I understand why he believes that. Case law and I believe the Alcoholic Beverage Code state that the parking lot would be part of the premises.

Do TABC rules allow people to take alcohol outside and drink in the parking lot because it's part of the premises?

aardwolf wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:He was wrong about the parking lot, but I understand why he believes that. Case law and I believe the Alcoholic Beverage Code state that the parking lot would be part of the premises.

Do TABC rules allow people to take alcohol outside and drink in the parking lot because it's part of the premises?

EXACTLY!!!!! I guarantee 100% the bar will NOT let you take your beer or drink outside the door, because you are no longer under their jurisdiction/insurance coverage...the parkinglot is NOT part of the business UNLESS it has a closed gate and you have to drive past security personnel

And unfortunately the law of .08 is null/void when you are carrying concealed, even 1 beer can be and infraction if you choose to carry, if you drink..leave the piece at home!

TABC agents represent the type of government morons the Second Amendment authors envisioned Americans may have to protect themselves against.

Molon_labe wrote: And unfortunately the law of .08 is null/void when you are carrying concealed, even 1 beer can be and infraction if you choose to carry, if you drink..leave the piece at home!

Can you cite any references for this, (highlighted part of statement above) other than the occassional addled-brained CHL instructor?

I think his point is that the law is ambiguous enough that an LEO with an attitude can make you very unhappy if he/she were to detect liquor on your breath.

I don't think it's a problem having a beer or a glass of wine when you are out to dinner with the spousal unit. Sitting in the bar slugging them down while you wait for a table is another matter. Let your conscience be your guide.