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I know this is a CHL forum and this question is not explicitly CHL related, but with all the great legal advice I'm hoping it's ok I post this here.

If your life was not being threatened, but you were still justified in using deadly force, would you consider firing a warning shot? I will use the example that seems like the most likely for me to use my guns. I drive a moderately modified car that I'm very protective of. I live in an apartment and always try to park my car as close to my bedroom window as possible. If the weather is nice I'll leave the window open at night to better hear my car alarm going off in case someone messes with it (I live on the second floor). Say I wake up in the middle of the night to the sound of my car alarm. I take my handgun and AK-47 over to the window and shine my 1,000,000 candela spotlight out the window and see someone trying to break into or already inside of my car. At this point I would have the right to use deadly force, but what would you guys think about firing a warning shot into the ground to scare them off? Since I'd already have my gun on target, I could fire another shot to kill if I see them grab for a weapon way before they could pull the trigger. Or, would you just paint them with a red laser and tell them to stop, or something to that effect? I most likely would decide not to kill in this circumstance since my life was not in danger. How would you guys handle a situation like this? Home invasion I may be a little more likely to shoot to kill no matter what, although it sounds like most of those guys are armed anyway. That's much more personal than breaking into my car and the potential for damage they could cause is much higher. Am I correct in assuming you are much more likely to be "no billed" for using deadly force in a home invasion vs. protecting my car or some other property?

Just a little hypothetical situation here. Say I fired a warning shot into the ground and the guy ran off. Since I live in an apartment there would be a good number of people calling the police hearing a shot fired. I know this sounds stupid, but even though it's illegal to discharge a firearm in city limits, I wouldn't be issued a fine for doing so (even though I was not even aiming at the criminal)? Since I had the right to use deadly force, I also had the right to threaten deadly force, which would trump not being allowed to shoot inside city limits, right? It's sort of like you're allowed to have your gun unconcealed if you are justified in using deadly force at the time you pull it out? I guess I'm wondering if a warning shot is an accectable and understood method of threatening deadly force, or would that be frowned upon by the cops? Sorry for the silly question, but shooting my gun would cause a big situation at my complex.

Flat,

I'm going to guess you were tired when you wrote this.

I hope this doesn't come across as sounding "harsh", but I can think of a dozen other ways of handling that scenario that would be better.

Please do not fire a "warning" shot. There are many reasons why, (some of which you answered yourself).

Welcome to the forum.

+1 I teach no warning shots.

In a word, NO!

No. Only shoot to stop, not to scare, intimidate or make a point.

Flatland2D wrote:
I take my handgun and AK-47 over to the window and shine my 1,000,000 candela spotlight out the window and see someone trying to break into or already inside of my car.

How did you obtain an AK47?

At this point I would have the right to use deadly force,

Lets stop there for a minute. There is no "right" in Texas to use deadly force. The justifications for using deadly force are a "defense to prosecution" and you are subject to prosecution for ANY use of deadly force.

There is NO blanket authorization for the use of deadly force. In your scenario, you MIGHT (and I strongly emphasize the word "might") be justified if you reasonably believe it is immediately necessary to use deadly force to prevent the imminent commission of theft during the nighttime.

but what would you guys think about firing a warning shot into the ground to scare them off?

So you shine a gazillion powered spotlight at them and they don't stop or flee? As the others wrote, you should never fire warning shots.

Since I'd already have my gun on target, I could fire another shot to kill if I see them grab for a weapon way before they could pull the trigger.

Oh boy....... Shooting to kill displays a mental state that you intended to kill the other. That is murder. Texas laws do not allow that. It allows you to use deadly force to STOP certain events, and the culpability is different. Deadly force is used to stop an act that is listed under Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal Code when the justification is present.

Or, would you just paint them with a red laser and tell them to stop, or something to that effect?

Paint them with a laser?

I most likely would decide not to kill in this circumstance since my life was not in danger. How would you guys handle a situation like this? Home invasion I may be a little more likely to shoot to kill no matter what, although it sounds like most of those guys are armed anyway. That's much more personal than breaking into my car and the potential for damage they could cause is much higher.

As a Use of Force instructor I am cringing reading your continued use of he "shoot to kill" phrase. See my comments above. The Penal Code does not allow deadly force because something is "personal"

Am I correct in assuming you are much more likely to be "no billed" for using deadly force in a home invasion vs. protecting my car or some other property?

Generally I would agree with that.

Just a little hypothetical situation here. Say I fired a warning shot into the ground and the guy ran off. Since I live in an apartment there would be a good number of people calling the police hearing a shot fired. I know this sounds stupid, but even though it's illegal to discharge a firearm in city limits, I wouldn't be issued a fine for doing so (even though I was not even aiming at the criminal)?

Again, use of force is a defense to prosecution. In your scenario, with no evidence or even with just some evidence, you would likely have your firearm taken and you would be charged. A defense to prosecution means you have to prove beyone a reasonable doubt that you met the justification. The police do not take well to people firing guns in public areas. And remember, as you set up the scenario the guy ran off, so the police have no way of verifying your story.

Since I had the right to use deadly force, I also had the right to threaten deadly force, which would trump not being allowed to shoot inside city limits, right?

Nope. Again, there is no "right" to deadly force. And yes, if you are justified in using deadly you are justified in threatening to use it; however, shooting near a person is more than mere threatening.

It's sort of like you're allowed to have your gun unconcealed if you are justified in using deadly force at the time you pull it out? I guess I'm wondering if a warning shot is an accectable and understood method of threatening deadly force, or would that be frowned upon by the cops? Sorry for the silly question, but shooting my gun would cause a big situation at my complex.

No, warning shots are not acceptable, and it would certainly be more than frowned upon by the cops.

May I suggest that you take a concealed handgun course? Even if you are under 21 or have no desire to carry concealed, these issues are covered thoroughly in the class. The information and training will serve you well.

NO Warning shots.


300shooter

Flat...Thats a very good question...And a fair one to ask...

I think you got some good information again here...

One thing to add, and for you to think about...

What benefit (after seeing the answers here so far) do you assume a warning shot would give you???

One lesson I have learned, and hope I never have to apply...

Never "assume" anything if you have to defend yourself...

In reality, you might have just wasted a shot...

You keep on asking questions ok? You're not a novice in any way shape or form...Like myself, its always good to get these questions you have out there, just to keep you on your toes...

What better place to keep it honed, than here...

Self defense, in my opinion, is not an "on the job" opportunity...Its fast, its unfair, and its something you want to be the best you can be, and then some...And one of the important things is to be confident and proficient in the use of, if you ever have to...But hope you never have to...

What that saying???

Hope for the best, but plan for the worst...

Remember basic physics.....what goes up must come down. It might come down and kill an innocent person or at best cause property damage. If a shot is not necessary to protect your life it is not necessary at all.
Jason

If you consider a warning shot the first shot I fire C.O.M. to stop a bad guy, then yes, I'll fire a warning shot.

I shoot 9mm, and everyone knows that you have to shoot a full mag of 10 rounds to stop anybody with one of those :

I had someone tell me once that "If you shoot and miss, then that's their warning shot"

Remember you are responsible for every round, every thing it touches, what it passes through, and where it stops.

Tomcat

ElGato wrote:Remember you are responsible for every round, every thing it touches, what it passes through, and where it stops.

Tomcat

Remember what Charles said a while back,

"...every round has a lawyer attached to it..."

As others have said, no warning shot. Make the round count. However, remember you may be put in front of a jury of your peers and left to convince them that your vehicle was worth more than a human life. Don't do it. Don't kill over property. Use it to defend yourself and protect your life. If you are worried about the value of your car, talk to your insurance company about adding a rider to your policy to cover the additional modifications that are not part of the value of the vehicle itself. Trust me....I have done it for my baby:





I would never kill over it.

da.suxor wrote:



I would never kill over it.

Where is the spout for those Kegs?