TexasCHLforum.com

A co-worker was asking me today.........
What can happen (charges) if you get caught carrying in a 51% establishment?

the offense is a felony of the third degree

I have never had a BAC of 51% so I would never go into a place that requires that level of intoxication

dukalmighty wrote:I have never had a BAC of 51% so I would never go into a place that requires that level of intoxication

Thats funny...........Bottoms UP

dukalmighty wrote:I have never had a BAC of 51% so I would never go into a place that requires that level of intoxication

You're not trying hard enough.

I guess I should have been a little more clear in the first post.

Is it the same charge with or without a CHL?

It's not technically the same charge.

Carrying a handgun without a CHL in a place that sells alcoholic beverages (not just a bar) is 46.02 Unlawful Carry.

Carrying a handgun with a CHL in a 51% establishment is 46.035 Unlawful Carrying of Handgun by a License Holder.

Both are third-degree felonies.

- Jim

BAD JUJU!

Even if they do not post it is STILL illegal, if a normal person could reasonably assume that the establishment derives more than 51% of their revenue from alcohol from on premise consumption you are still guilty. As it is not a defense under the law.

So if you are down on 6th street and wander into a bar that is NOT posted, and many aren't, you can (and most likely will) be arrested for violating the 51% clause.

Consider this.......

the legal BAC for a CHL (while carrying) is 0.00

if you are in a 51% establisment , the chances of you having an "adult" beverage are fairly high.

so why would you go into one while carrying ??

just a thought

Rough_Ashlar wrote:Consider this.......

the legal BAC for a CHL (while carrying) is 0.00

if you are in a 51% establisment , the chances of you having an "adult" beverage are fairly high.

so why would you go into one while carrying ??

just a thought

Actually, this is incorrect. You may not carry and be intoxicated. However, there is no definition 100% for intoxicated while carrying. Some try to assume it is .08% like driving, but until there is a test case, it will be unclear.

i seem to recall that my instructor said that about the BAC

but a cursory look over the law just uses the word "intoxicated" with no definition of such

so i suppose i am incorrect

mea culpa

Rough_Ashlar wrote:so i suppose i am incorrect

To perhaps kick a dead horse, some might instead compliment your instructor for recommending the use of good judgment when one might be tempted to mix alcohol and a deadly weapon, even though, under the circumstances, it might be "legal."

Many instructors will tell you not to drink and carry, or even tell you it is illegal to consume alcohol and carry (just to be safe.) I personally don't drink if I am carrying myself. However, legally, it is listed as intoxicated, so until such time as you are deemed intoxicated (whatever level that is) then it is not illegal to drink and carry. Clear as mud, eh?

Big Boomer wrote:BAD JUJU!

Even if they do not post it is STILL illegal, if a normal person could reasonably assume that the establishment derives more than 51% of their revenue from alcohol from on premise consumption you are still guilty. As it is not a defense under the law.

So if you are down on 6th street and wander into a bar that is NOT posted, and many aren't, you can (and most likely will) be arrested for violating the 51% clause.

Just to be technically correct, the law does not care about the sign or if the mythical normal person can reasonable assume they are 51%. The law only says it is illegal to carry if TABC has determined they are 51%.

TABC is getting much better about this determination, though there was some confusion in the past. There are still a few areas I disagree with, but it is much better.

One of the other threads mentions a winery store that is not posted but appears to sell solely by the glass. As he walked in, the poster reasonable determined that this would make the store 51%. I do not know if he was correct or not, since we also have direct shipment wine sales. The store may sell on premises by the glass only and sell many bottles for off premise consumption through direct shipment or wholesale to other retailers.

I use this example solely to point out that the perception may no0t be accurate. Disarming when you think the signs SHOULD be present is very good advice for a safety from arrest perception though it might be dangerous from other safety considerations.

srothstein wrote:One of the other threads mentions a winery store that is not posted but appears to sell solely by the glass. As he walked in, the poster reasonable determined that this would make the store 51%. I do not know if he was correct or not, since we also have direct shipment wine sales. The store may sell on premises by the glass only and sell many bottles for off premise consumption through direct shipment or wholesale to other retailers.

I use this example solely to point out that the perception may no0t be accurate. Disarming when you think the signs SHOULD be present is very good advice for a safety from arrest perception though it might be dangerous from other safety considerations.

My advice is to avoid 51% establishments (and other legalized victim zones) until the law is fixed to remove the unnecessary restrictions on good people carrying. I don't go places where I'm not allowed to carry a gun unless I have no choice (like jury duty) and my life is good.