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A Florida man allegedly threatened to kill Sen. Obama if Obama was elected President. The people who heard him called the Secret Service. This document is a probable cause affidavit by a Secret Service Agent:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... bama1.html

Warning: This site contains material that is not child-safe.

- Jim

So THAT is what Gecko45 looks like.

One thing that I found interesting in the wording of the affidavit is that the secret service agent noted that Obama was a major presidential candidate. Does this imply that threats to minor presidential candidates are treated differently in the statutes? Are not all of the candidates entitled to equal protection under the law?

dave_in_austin wrote:Does this imply that threats to minor presidential candidates are treated differently in the statutes? Are not all of the candidates entitled to equal protection under the law?

That is exactly the case. This is part of the text of 18 USC 879:

Sec. 879. Threats against former Presidents and certain other persons
(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully threatens to kill, kidnap, or inflict bodily harm upon -
(1) a former President or a member of the immediate family of a former President;
(2) a member of the immediate family of the President, the President-elect, the Vice President, or the Vice President-elect;
(3) a major candidate for the office of President or Vice President, or a member of the immediate family of such candidate;
or
(4) a person protected by the Secret Service under section 3056(a)(6);
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

Threatening a person orally is a state crime, for the most part. This affidavit required probable cause of a federal crime within the jurisdiction of the Secret Service.

It could also be a federal crime if committed through the mail or interstate commerce. I really don't know much about that.

I did not research section 3056(a)(6) because I can't find it.

- Jim

Felony stupid...This falls under the same reasoning of not joking about blowing up an aircraft while you are in the airport. The fact this moron shot his mouth off to the Agent and got arrested for it doesn't bother me one bit. What does bother me is the inaccurate statement by the Special Agent stating he found 40-rounds of 9mm Black-Talon "armor-piercing" bullets. I can understand civilians not knowing any better because the round was yanked off the market fairly quickly. But you'd think LE would know better.

G.C.Montgomery wrote:Felony stupid...This falls under the same reasoning of not joking about blowing up an aircraft while you are in the airport. The fact this moron shot his mouth off to the Agent and got arrested for it doesn't bother me one bit. What does bother me is the inaccurate statement by the Special Agent stating he found 40-rounds of 9mm Black-Talon "armor-piercing" bullets. I can understand civilians not knowing any better because the round was yanked off the market fairly quickly. But you'd think LE would know better.

I believe he knew better, but '9mm Black-Talon "armor-piercing" bullets' makes a better impression than "obsolete 9MM JHPs" the guy was sucking up his 15 minutes of fame. Feds will never let truth get in the way of a good story. It is an Eliot Ness , J Edgar to Janet Reno tradition.

Liberty wrote:

G.C.Montgomery wrote:Felony stupid...This falls under the same reasoning of not joking about blowing up an aircraft while you are in the airport. The fact this moron shot his mouth off to the Agent and got arrested for it doesn't bother me one bit. What does bother me is the inaccurate statement by the Special Agent stating he found 40-rounds of 9mm Black-Talon "armor-piercing" bullets. I can understand civilians not knowing any better because the round was yanked off the market fairly quickly. But you'd think LE would know better.

I believe he knew better, but '9mm Black-Talon "armor-piercing" bullets' makes a better impression than "obsolete 9MM JHPs" the guy was sucking up his 15 minutes of fame. Feds will never let truth get in the way of a good story. It is an Eliot Ness , J Edgar to Janet Reno tradition.

Well, it would seem we have a problem. If the agent knew better but knowingly stated the suspect had AP handgun ammo when that's not the case, the agent has compromised his entire statement. That same sort of behavior by investigating officers compromised the case against O.J. Simpson.

This affidavit is going to be presented to a grand jury, where the defendant will not be able to contradict it. He will not be able to afford the kind of defense that O.J. could afford. His life as he knows it is over.

Even though Black Talon rounds are not armor-piercing and are completely legal to own, having them in a motel room as opposed to one's home is going to look bad to any jury composed to a cross-section of the community.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:This affidavit is going to be presented to a grand jury, where the defendant will not be able to contradict it. He will not be able to afford the kind of defense that O.J. could afford. His life as he knows it is over.

Even though Black Talon rounds are not armor-piercing and are completely legal to own, having them in a motel room as opposed to one's home is going to look bad to any jury composed to a cross-section of the community.

- Jim

I don't disagree Jim. What I take exception to is the idea of an officer of the law knowingly breaking the law by making a false statement just to fit an agenda, that's all. Like I said earlier, this idiot is facing a case of felony stupidity and if he really made those statements to the agent, he deserves all the pain that goes with it.

G.C.Montgomery wrote:What I take exception to is the idea of an officer of the law knowingly breaking the law by making a false statement just to fit an agenda, that's all.

The take-away lesson for the rest of us is that this technique works if you can't afford a defense "dream team" and don't have the luck to face incompetent prosecutors and a clueless judge.

Federal prosecutors obtain convictions in 90% of the cases where they obtain indictments.

Keep the lips zipped. Don't consent to searches. Don't waive your Miranda rights.

- Jim

G.C.Montgomery wrote: Well, it would seem we have a problem. If the agent knew better but knowingly stated the suspect had AP handgun ammo when that's not the case, the agent has compromised his entire statement. That same sort of behavior by investigating officers compromised the case against O.J. Simpson.

But, who can prove that the Fed actually knew better? I'm sure he would insist that he saw it on TV and thought it was so. I've heard them make the sdame claim on Law and Order

Liberty wrote:

G.C.Montgomery wrote: Well, it would seem we have a problem. If the agent knew better but knowingly stated the suspect had AP handgun ammo when that's not the case, the agent has compromised his entire statement. That same sort of behavior by investigating officers compromised the case against O.J. Simpson.

But, who can prove that the Fed actually knew better? I'm sure he would insist that he saw it on TV and thought it was so. I've heard them make the sdame claim on Law and Order

I've pretty much said what I had to say on it. I agree with Jim's post in that this guy will probably get hosed unless he gets lucky by landing a great attorney and a dumb prosecutor. I'm just fine with either result so long as there is due process. If the guy was dumb enough to make the statements in the report and is convicted, he deserves what he gets for being an idiot.

With respect to proving a false statement, it would seem pretty easy to me in this specific case. It is not sufficient that the agent claims he saw it on TV and assumed it to be true. That's like saying he found white powder in your kitchen and assumed it must be a controlled-substance because he has seen controlled-substances that looked like the same kind of white powder on episodes of Miami Vice.

The offense that the man is charged with is threatening to kill a presidential candidate. He had the means to do so, regardless of the assertion about Black Talon cartridges. If you ignore that, the stuff they guy had is embarrassing, especially the police light and "police-type raid vest" in his vehicle.

- Jim