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Here's a perfect example of what can go wrong if you go outside to stop someone from stealing something from your vehicle or trailer, etc.

http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/1004823.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

WATAUGA -- A homeowner was stabbed several times and shot in the arm early Wednesday after he confronted a burglar breaking into a trailer that was parked on a driveway, police said.

A neighbor also was stabbed in the arm when he came to help, police said. The identities of the men were not released.

The incident happened about 3:30 a.m. in the 6000 block of Sundown Drive.

"At about that time, the homeowner heard someone breaking into his trailer," Watauga police Detective Jason Babcock said Wednesday. "He came out armed with a shotgun."

The homeowner confronted the burglar, but he was stabbed several times, Babcock said. He also was shot while struggling with the burglar.

The neighbor who had heard the confrontation came out and he was stabbed in the arm, police said.

The burglar was able to flee the scene, police said.

The homeowner was transported to a local hospital where he was in critical condition, police said. His neighbor drove himself to a hospital.

Domingo Ramirez Jr., 817-685-3822

I'm not saying a person shouldn't protect his property, just BE PREPARED (physically AND mentally) for the confrontation.

...not the best outcome, but I think that this is the exception to the norm...most Texans shoot first in this kind of situation...at least I hope they would...

Yeah, I was not there, but...

If you're going to go confront potentially armed burglars, you have to be able to pull the trigger. Either this guy got way too close to react in time, or he wasn't willing to pull the trigger to stop the threat. Either way, it was a tactically poor move.

It gets even worse.

http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/1006812.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watauga homeowner loses arm in struggle with burglar
By DOMINGO RAMIREZ JR.ramirez@star-telegram.com

WATAUGA — Brian Moore heard someone breaking into his trailer as it was parked in his driveway early Wednesday.

The 42-year-old homeowner told his wife to call 911 and walked out of his house armed with a shotgun to confront the burglar.

It lasted only seconds.

Moore lost an arm after being shot and stabbed several times when he struggled with the burglar, police said.

Moore was taken to Harris Methodist Fort Worth Hospital and was in critical condition Wednesday, police said.

Authorities said his arm was amputated because of the shotgun wounds.

George Colby, 46, a neighbor who had been staying with Moore, was also stabbed in an arm when he came to help, police said. He drove himself to a hospital, police said.

The incident happened about 3:30 a.m. in the 6000 block of Sundown Drive.

"He could tell immediately that someone was breaking into the trailer," Watauga police Detective Jason Babcock said Wednesday.

"He [the burglar] apparently had a folding knife," Babcock said.

The homeowner’s wife heard the confrontation and asked Colby to go help her husband, police said.

After stabbing Colby, the burglar fled, police said.

Investigators believe that the burglar had been in the driveway for a while because several tools from the trailer were found at a few spots down the street. A bolt cutter that investigators believe was used by the burglar was found as well.

"He apparently stashed the tools so he could pick them up later," Babcock said. "He may have just parked his vehicle down the street and walked up to the driveway."

Investigators spent most of Wednesday gathering evidence in the north Watauga neighborhood.

Manicured lawns lie side by side on Sundown Drive, which is near the Keller city limits. Halloween decorations cover one home in the quiet neighborhood, where houses average just over $130,000 and burglaries are the most recurring felonies, police said.

But violent burglaries are rare, authorities said.

Police said the suspect is in his early to mid-20s and is about 5-foot-10 with short dark hair, a goatee and a mustache.

Anyone with information about the case should call Watauga police at 817-514-5878.

DOMINGO RAMIREZ JR., 817-685-3822

That is some scary stuff there and it is unfortunate that the home owner received such massive injuries.

Last Friday I walked out to my driveway to find my truck sitting on bricks with the wheels stolen. If I would have heard something I would have gone out there to stop the thieves/threat.

Wish the guy a fast recovery. He probly realized that just pumping the shotgun didnt scare away the bg and that he then realized the birdshot that he had wouldnt have worked and just chose to fight the guy with fists.

This is sad, sad. My father and I were chatting about this after lunch today, he lives pretty near to where this happened.

see, this is why you get an upstairs room with a sniper's perch. that way you can pick'em off without leaving the security (read: central air/heat) of your home.

on the other side, I feel nauseated about the guy losing his arm. just terrible.

I gather from the report that the burglar took the first man's shotgun away from him, and I therefore second everyone's response that if you are to confront, you should be prepared to continue down that force continuum.

xpur3l0g1cx wrote:... he then realized the birdshot that he had wouldnt have worked ...

I'll bet his amputated arm would argue differently. I've tended to people who were shot at near point blank range with bird shot. You get that up close in the chest or abdomen from 3-4 feet away, and the odds of your survival become a dicey proposition. I'm not saying that buckshot wouldn't be better, but I do think that the failure here wasn't so much the fact that he was armed with bird shot as it was that he didn't carry forward and shoot the BG before allowing himself to get tangled up in a tussle. Once he had made the decision to leave the protection of his house, he should have been prepared to follow the decision through.

I'm really sorry for him that he lost his arm in the process. That just sucks. But I maintain that exiting his house turned out to be a bad decision for him precisely because he was not mentally prepared for what might ensue. I assume that, since he had a trailer full of tools, the victim was some kind of contractor or handyman? How is he going to earn a living now, with one good arm? The whole thing is just terrible.

I agree, take action as close to your door/cover as you can. Don't run up there hoping you can overpower the bad guy. You are justified in using deadly force already in this case - USE IT (OR LOSE IT).

I'm sorry to hear it ended up in a loss for this guy. Would have been a great victory but instead it is a tragedy. I hope he recovers soon as the bad guy doesn't come back for more later on..

That is brutal, i cant believe the guy lost his arm.

After reading this, i will just shoot first

sivart-dod wrote:That is brutal, i cant believe the guy lost his arm.

After reading this, i will just shoot first

Well, I wouldn't quite go that far. Practicing better tactics when confronting a burglar (like keeping your distance) go a long way. Having a round in the chamber, the gun at low ready, and enough distance between you and the burglar means you have enough time to react quickly if he decides to make a move towards you. You still need to be able to identify the target(s) and assess the situation before simply opening fire. Simply running out and shooting puts you at risk, especially if there are multiple armed BGs. You may not know about the critter parked across the street in the getaway vehicle, who could easily open fire on you as you open fire on his buddy. Being able to use cover or concealment mitigates some of those risks.

NcongruNt wrote:

sivart-dod wrote:That is brutal, i cant believe the guy lost his arm.

After reading this, i will just shoot first

Well, I wouldn't quite go that far. Practicing better tactics when confronting a burglar (like keeping your distance) go a long way. Having a round in the chamber, the gun at low ready, and enough distance between you and the burglar means you have enough time to react quickly if he decides to make a move towards you. You still need to be able to identify the target(s) and assess the situation before simply opening fire. Simply running out and shooting puts you at risk, especially if there are multiple armed BGs. You may not know about the critter parked across the street in the getaway vehicle, who could easily open fire on you as you open fire on his buddy. Being able to use cover or concealment mitigates some of those risks.

If you do decide to go outside, be aware that you are not on the range and things are a LOT different. You are in a 360 degree threat environment - you can be attacked from the front, back, sides, or diagonals, and by someone above or below you, depending on terrain, natural growth, building improvements, and vehicles. The BG's are not out to play fair, and once they realize you're out there, if they don't immediately flee you're probably facing some experienced criminals who aren't afraid of you. This is an immediate and clear indicator that you're in deep doo doo.

Light is a two edged sword - what enables you to see and identify a target also lets him pinpoint you, quite possibly before your light falls onto him. If you don't use light, it's easier to remain undetected, but it's often quite difficult to figure out how many adversaries you have, where they are, and especially whether or not they're armed. Just because you think you're the hunter doesn't mean you can't be hunted. It's quite possible to find yourself stalked and surprised up close by someone who is more used to operating in the dark than you are.

If you plan on going after folks in the dark, a bullet resistant vest is a REALLY GOOD IDEA.

There are solid tactics for moving in ways that minimize your visibility and make it hard to see exactly where you are. If you're not familiar with these, you're missing a critical survival tool for low light confrontations. If you're not wearing clothing that blends in with the background, you've got another disadvantage working against you.

As NcongruNT points out, distance is definitely your friend. The reverse is also true. Distance combined with COVER that stops bullets gives you time to assess accurately and decide wisely before acting.

The BG may well have backup at the scene or nearby - do you? Who is watching your back? The bad guys often have quite a bit of experience in some pretty nasty tactics. If you're not awfully well prepared for that game, it's unlikely you'll win your opening round against the experts. I think that's a pretty good reason to manage the situation from inside as a rule, and to think about it really hard when you're tempted to play outdoor ninja warrior for keeps. It's much safer to select a good position yourself and let the bad guy come to you.

Just to add on to what Excalibur said about inside vs. outside, if they hear you coming out, they will hide and wait until they see you in the front door. You will come out and won't see them but they will see you. You are dead at that point, basically.

If you're going to go out, come from an unknown or unseen position.

If at night, flash grenades or flares work well - don't look at them of course, but it will act as a deterrant, distraction, and a warning for the rest of the neighborhood, not to mention if you toss it near enough to the BGs, it will mess with their eyes and could give you an upper hand.

LCP_Dogg wrote:Just to add on to what Excalibur said about inside vs. outside, if they hear you coming out, they will hide and wait until they see you in the front door. You will come out and won't see them but they will see you. You are dead at that point, basically.

If you're going to go out, come from an unknown or unseen position.

If at night, flash grenades or flares work well - don't look at them of course, but it will act as a deterrant, distraction, and a warning for the rest of the neighborhood, not to mention if you toss it near enough to the BGs, it will mess with their eyes and could give you an upper hand.

Good point about exiting from a point in view of the BG's.

Another consideration is while you, the army of 1, are outside, who's protecting the rest of the family if the BG's decide to turn the situation into a home invasion?

I couldn't give a thumbs up to either flash grenades or flares. Flash grenades provide only a fraction of a second of illumination. That wouldn't do you a whole lot of good. Flares are pretty hard to light without giving your position away big time, and the risk of starting a fire would be very high. If you're going to light 'em up, do it with a high intensity flashlight. Some knowledgeable folks now advocate using units with a strobe function to cause disorientation and make you a bit less of a target while using it. I haven't worked with this enough to have an opinion yet, but it's an option to keep in mind.