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The Office Manager where I work and her husband came within an eyelash of being murdered a little over a week ago, down in the Freeport area.
They were home in the evening, it was already dark, and they heard a loud sound outside. They went out to investigate and found that someone had put a knife through one of the tires of his truck. It turns out that was a ruse to get the occupants to come out, because as soon as they got outside 2 armed men wearing ski masks ran in behind them. She told me that at one point the guys had them kneel, and at another point had them lay down, and she thought they were dead.
Luckily the 2 BG's were looking for someone who had done them wrong in a drug deal. That individual lives on the same street, but in a different block. As soon as they saw the husband they began to realize they had made a mistake, but didn't leave right away. Finally they did leave, with no physical injuries to her or her husband.
This all happened on their front porch. I did not find out how long it took or if anyone else saw it or responded.
IMHO, the only reason they are alive is the BG's were wearing ski masks.
The next time you hear a suspicious noise outside, keep this in mind.

TraCoun

TraCoun wrote:The Office Manager where I work and her husband came within an eyelash of being murdered a little over a week ago, down in the Freeport area.
They were home in the evening, it was already dark, and they heard a loud sound outside. They went out to investigate and found that someone had put a knife through one of the tires of his truck. It turns out that was a ruse to get the occupants to come out, because as soon as they got outside 2 armed men wearing ski masks ran in behind them. She told me that at one point the guys had them kneel, and at another point had them lay down, and she thought they were dead.
Luckily the 2 BG's were looking for someone who had done them wrong in a drug deal. That individual lives on the same street, but in a different block. As soon as they saw the husband they began to realize they had made a mistake, but didn't leave right away. Finally they did leave, with no physical injuries to her or her husband.
This all happened on their front porch. I did not find out how long it took or if anyone else saw it or responded.
IMHO, the only reason they are alive is the BG's were wearing ski masks.
The next time you hear a suspicious noise outside, keep this in mind.

TraCoun

This is one more anecdote that reinforces my consistent counsel to resist the temptation to do the "night ninja" thing in a low light 360 degree threat environment with no communications, backup, or tailgunner.

Some of our members think I'm a wimp or soft on crime for this, but this recommendation is based on tactical reality and long, hard experience in more incidents than I could count.

I believe the first requirement for sound tactics is that they give you to a high probability of surviving the incident. Going outside in the dark to investigate noises doesn't meet this criterion.

These folks weren't just lucky - they were very very lucky.

You are not wimp or soft. There really are no Rambos in the real workd.
That is what windows first & other door access is for. Wife on the phone & distance from the gang. Still not wimp if one chooses to head for the Alamo room in the house & wait for the Law. Longest 30 minutes you will ever waight.
When 3 seconds means life or death, LEO is only 30 minutes away.

longtooth wrote:You are not wimp or soft. There really are no Rambos in the real workd.
That is what windows first & other door access is for. Wife on the phone & distance from the gang. Still not wimp if one chooses to head for the Alamo room in the house & wait for the Law. Longest 30 minutes you will ever waight.
When 3 seconds means life or death, LEO is only 30 minutes away.

And not that that is a bad thing...there are far too many LEO's to protect each and every one of the citizens in their beat, plus they respond to the highest level report at the time...your cry for help might not be as important (or as loud) as civil unrest on the other side of town.

Wimps and cowards live longer. I want to be a wimp and a coward.

Thank you, gentlemen - I appreciate the support from voices of wisdom who've been around a bit and know how to handle themselves in bad situations.

The only reason I keep beating this drum is because I don't want to see new forum members who are thirsting for knowledge pick up on poorly thought out tactics and adopt them, only to learn the truth the hard way.

I've been through hundreds of real life tactical situations going up against serious bad actors, and I won't lose any sleep if armchair commandos with a rich fantasy life think my tactics aren't macho enough. I've been through enough serious incidents to know that the guy who takes good cover in a fortified position with his back protected and a clear field of fire in front will eat anyone who comes after him for lunch.

The would be night ninja who goes stumbling around in a low light 360 degree threat environment looking for trouble is begging to become predator food. If he does that when the suspicious noises are coming from a real bad guy instead of raccoons and opossums, he's pretty likely to get what he's asking for too.

A survivable tactical plan in the event of a prowler or home intrusion is to take a preplanned position with anything worth dying for (people) in a prepared and fortified location with appropriate equipment trained on the only approach route to them, while staying in communication with LEO's who can deal with whatever is anywhere else in the house or on any other areas of the property. They get paid to do that, and it isn't worth risking one's life to deprive them of that opportunity.

If an intruder were to be determined enough to make the concerted effort it would take to invade a properly prepared refuge before he can be intercepted, he will have left an incontrovertible evidence trail of damage to physical barriers that would clearly support the necessity to use deadly force, and he can be dealt with quickly and effectively when and if he reaches a point where he could present a direct threat.

This strategy works reliably and it can be implemented and survived time after time. There's a lot to be said for that.

Good story, happily with a good ending for your friends. In the various gun magazines, we see lots of stories about an armed citizen prevailing over a thug, but we need to see more stories like this one, with "lessons that should be learned" discussion. Excaliber nailed it: have a plan and use it. There is nothing at all wrong with retreating to a safe part of the house to wait out the bumps in the night.

Excaliber,

Thank you for the realistic analysis. You have potentially saved someone's life by convincing him not to go looking for trouble.

In 1982 my wife and I got our first PC. It came with some primitive games, one of which was Robot War. The game comprised a maze into which hostile robots entered in search of the good guy; you aimed with the arrow keys and fired with the space bar (told you it was primitive).

My tactic of pursuing the invading robots always got me "killed" eventually. Her tactic of hiding in a maze corner and shooting any hostile robot who approached enabled her to not just beat my best score, but to beat it by a factor of 10 or more, consistently.

I know this was only a primitive computer game, but the lesson not to go looking for trouble is still valid; if trouble is coming, set up in a defensible position and wait for it.

If you have children or others whom you need to gather into your defensible position, your planning ought to cover that.

There are times when you do not know whether there is trouble or not, and you need to go look. When the dog starts barking like crazy, I need to look - sometimes it is an armadillo, sometimes hogs, sometimes a possum, once it was a moccasin (western cottonmouth). I can't call the police every time the dog barks - it might take them 1/2 hour to get there, and I'd better have a real problem for them to tackle if I call, not just a nervous dog.

Knowing when to go look, and when to withdraw to a defensible room, is the art. Still working on it.

Regards,
Andrew

BobCat wrote: Thank you for the realistic analysis. You have potentially saved someone's life by convincing him not to go looking for trouble.

BobCat wrote:There are times when you do not know whether there is trouble or not, and you need to go look. When the dog starts barking like crazy, I need to look - sometimes it is an armadillo, sometimes hogs, sometimes a possum, once it was a moccasin (western cottonmouth). I can't call the police every time the dog barks - it might take them 1/2 hour to get there, and I'd better have a real problem for them to tackle if I call, not just a nervous dog.

Knowing when to go look, and when to withdraw to a defensible room, is the art. Still working on it.

Andrew,

You're more than welcome. It's good to know that some folks find my approach useful enough to adopt themselves.

I may not have been clear on use of a fortified position. I do not advocate doing this every time there's a noise in the night. In that case, turning on the lights and looking outside is the way to go to determine if you've got a real problem or just a furry visitor. Motion activated floodlights make this real easy even if you're not next to the light switch.

There really isn't a lot of art to deciding when to circle the wagons - common sense will work just fine.

Movement to a fortified position and police contact is recommended if you look out and see a prowler outside, or hear sounds that are strongly indicative of an intrusion attempt (pounding on a door, breaking glass, splintering wood, etc.).

This is another reason to consider an AK or or to put slugs in your home defense shotgun. If it had been a home invasion and you retreated, a pistol is not go to overwhelm multiple attackers.

bdickens wrote:Wimps and cowards live longer. I want to be a wimp and a coward.

Amen brother.

Someone also called me a "wimp/coward" for carrying a gun "instead of learning to fight"

Whatever.

[/quote]And not that that is a bad thing...there are far too many LEO's to protect each and every one of the citizens in their beat, plus they respond to the highest level report at the time...your cry for help might not be as important (or as loud) as civil unrest on the other side of town.[/quote]

Neither is it law enforcements role for personal protection. They are not legally responsible for personal protection, only law enforcement. If one wants protection, hire a bodyguard.

WarHawk-AVG wrote:And not that that is a bad thing...there are far too many LEO's to protect each and every one of the citizens in their beat, plus they respond to the highest level report at the time...your cry for help might not be as important (or as loud) as civil unrest on the other side of town.

shouldn't that be "far too few"? or maybe "not nearly enough"?

nitrogen wrote:

bdickens wrote:Wimps and cowards live longer. I want to be a wimp and a coward.

Amen brother.

Someone also called me a "wimp/coward" for carrying a gun "instead of learning to fight"

Whatever.

I think that individual may have overlooked something.

You did learn to fight - with a gun.

Excaliber wrote:There really isn't a lot of art to deciding when to circle the wagons - common sense will work just fine.

Movement to a fortified position and police contact is recommended if you look out and see a prowler outside, or hear sounds that are strongly indicative of an intrusion attempt (pounding on a door, breaking glass, splintering wood, etc.).

We have motion detector lights, and I'm not really expecting intruders, but there have been times that I've thought (in retrospect) that my going out to look around was stupid. Although we have no known enemies, random bad-actors (like the "railroad killer" a few years ago) are my main concern.

I have friends who open their front door in response to a knock, without looking - who think that my wife and I are crazy to live "so far from civilization".

Anyway, your admonition not to go looking for trouble is valuable.

Regards,
Andrew