TexasCHLforum.com

I am new to this business and trying to learn. I have been reading about the new Hornady Critical Defense ammo for the 9MM. I have the xdm springfield in 9MM. What do you old pros think about this load for my home defense and concealed carry ammo?

Our very own Stephan Camp tested some and liked it.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 39&t=21291" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Everyone has a magic bullet they like to use...I believe all go bang when you need them...Some work better than others, but then again you have to determine what "better" means...

I like the Speer Gold Dots in the firearms I use for defensive purposes...Reliable, accurate...They work for me...The best all-around factory load I've come across...

I actually do have a magic bullet that I really like...They are expensive, I won't lie...They are manufactured right here in the Great State of Texas by a guy named Stoker (Not Stroker Ace)...

RBCD.net...

I took a long, hard look at this concept/design...And over the years of hearing about FTFeeds and other issues with "some" hollowpoint rounds...This design has a blended metal fill in the tip that kinda works like an FMJ type round, but has the performance of a round half its weight...

Like, what is the nominal weight of a .40 round??? 155gr. ??? Somewhere around there???

The RBCD rounds are 77grs. their velocity is tremendous, and the energy into the target is phenomenal...

Tests into clay blocks and into ballistic gel demonstrates the wounding cavity and energy dispersement is incredible...

And for the penetration police, the penetration due to the high performance, is remarkably very little...

So take it for what it is worth...Everyone here has a favorite, and will let you know what they use (like me)...

Steve Camp is a true champion when it comes to evaluating and giving very credible and confident analysis on issues like this...If he ever told me I was full of it, I would believe him!!!

I would pick his brain without hesitation...

I'm venturing this new Hornady ammo looses less velocity passing through clothing that traditional hollow points. This might explain the lower advertised muzzle velocities for the various Critical Defense loads. Let's see some FBI tests results. Even if the rounds come up a little short on penetration, the FBI says that should not rule them out completely if the distance is close to the minimum 12 inches, as was the case with the Critical Defense .38 Special round. Lower velocity in the same bullet weight equals better control, faster follow up shots. Insofar as the polymer insert in the Critical Defense bullet tip may fall out sooner than a hollow point can expel impacted clothing fibers, expansion may begin earlier in the path of a Critical Defense round and compromise penetration slightly. An acceptable trade off in self defense.

The grand jury is still out. But I have a feeling it is going to indict the Critical Defense round as deadly.

I assume that the aerodynamics of a HP are different from a FMJ round? If so, is it so different that you would have to take this into account...would you have to aim differently or something?

If i carried a gun small enough i would probably use critical defense.

ClarkLZeuss wrote:I assume that the aerodynamics of a HP are different from a FMJ round? If so, is it so different that you would have to take this into account...would you have to aim differently or something?

With a quality fire arm & at personal defense distance you will not need to aim any different.
Move out beyond 15yds to 25 & 30yds you will start to see that different guns group different ammo better some times.

longtooth wrote:

ClarkLZeuss wrote:I assume that the aerodynamics of a HP are different from a FMJ round? If so, is it so different that you would have to take this into account...would you have to aim differently or something?

With a quality fire arm & at personal defense distance you will not need to aim any different.
Move out beyond 15yds to 25 & 30yds you will start to see that different guns group different ammo better some times.

Interestingly, every pistol I've ever owned has generally grouped better with hollow point ammunition - regardless of brand or caliber - than with FMJ. I have to assume that it has to do with better manufacturing tolerances for premium defense ammunition than you get for cheaper "practice" loads, resulting in better consistency for the hollow points, which in turn results in better groups.

casingpoint wrote:I'm venturing this new Hornady ammo looses less velocity passing through clothing that traditional hollow points.

well, they can always tighten that up...


Steve: in regards to the RBCD ammo, I bought a few cartridges in .357Mag a few years back, and thought it was interesting. the recoil was nut unlike a .38spl in my 2" revolver. however, having seen the very scientific tests done on The Box O' Truth regarding RBCD rounds, I'm concerned that they wouldn't penetrate far enough.


in regards to the Critical Defense ammo, I think it's good stuff on paper, and wouldn't hesitate to carry it. seems like you wouldn't have that jacket failure, or lack of expansion after going through some like clothing or a door.

DoubleJ wrote:

casingpoint wrote:I'm venturing this new Hornady ammo looses less velocity passing through clothing that traditional hollow points.

well, they can always tighten that up...


Steve: in regards to the RBCD ammo, I bought a few cartridges in .357Mag a few years back, and thought it was interesting. the recoil was nut unlike a .38spl in my 2" revolver. however, having seen the very scientific tests done on The Box O' Truth regarding RBCD rounds, I'm concerned that they wouldn't penetrate far enough.


in regards to the Critical Defense ammo, I think it's good stuff on paper, and wouldn't hesitate to carry it. seems like you wouldn't have that jacket failure, or lack of expansion after going through some like clothing or a door.

My expensive "Box of Truth" test with the RBCD stuff was a 1 cu.ft. block of duct seal, with a t-shirt and an old cut up denim jacket layered over it...

5" clean into the block, thru the clothing material, wound cavity was about the size of a nice melon...With no penetration...The fragments were almost too hard to find, found a few, but it was a really enlightening experience...Oh, the distance (FWIW) was about 10 feet...I didn't want to miss...

Maybe ductseal is a little harder than clay or ballistic gel (obviously) but I reformed the block, scootched the clothing over to give a new impact point...And I shot a Speer Gold Dot, a Federal Hydroshok and a PMC FMJ (all .40) into it...All of which did about the same thing to the block, but they all penetrated thru the block...

But like I say, everyone has a magic bullet...I don't carry .40 at this time...I graduated up to .45

As long as it goes bang...I do not see many complaints registering...

If anyone doesn't know what RBCD is, certainly go check it out...It is very similar in design to the Corbon ammunition...

Penetration: Most knife wounds over three inches deep in the right place are fatal because a vital organ is struck. I don't expect it is all that much different for bullet wounds. Critical Defense ammo, according to Hornady, is certain to pass through exterior clothing with it's expansion ability still intact. I figure any of the Critical Defense rounds is good for at least 3-6 inches of penetration after that. This may be higly effective ammo in .380ACP, .38 Special and 9mm at normal shooting encounter distances.

http://www.personalprotectionsystems.ca ... search.doc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bass Pro Shops in San Antonio got some 9mm of that stuff in. Also Winchester's new PDX1 line was there as well. But will probably be all gone by the time you finish reading this!!!!!!

Speer Gold Dots in my 9mm and 45 all the way

Furyataurus wrote:Bass Pro Shops in San Antonio got some 9mm of that stuff in. Also Winchester's new PDX1 line was there as well. But will probably be all gone by the time you finish reading this!!!!!!

I don't even bother starting the truck anymore...