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Im talking about shooters training of course. I and a friend are interested in taking some pisotol and assault rifle training courses together. I just love to shoot and want some good training, my buddy is going into law enforcement and eventually swat.

We live in SE Texas and want to keep our triaining in Texas though well go as far as Dallas, Nacogdoches, Ausin, San Antonio, Beaumonte, and Corpus Christi. Price is not so much an issue(you get what you pay for), we just want to get the best available.

Specifically we want classes for Defensive pistol, conceal carry, home defense, assual rifle and night time/ low light tactics.

too bad Thunder Ranch moved...

Two that I have heard good things about are Texas Defensive Shooting Academy ...TDSA just south of Dallas off I-45
http://www.tdsa.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and KR Training between Austin and Lockhart

http://www.krtraining.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope this helps. I hear that there are some around Houston but others would know more.

Take a look at Tiger Valley. They have a great facility, a wide variety of courses, and top notch instructors with real world experience backgrounds.

newmenu2 wrote:Im talking about shooters training of course. I and a friend are interested in taking some pisotol and assault rifle training courses together. I just love to shoot and want some good training, my buddy is going into law enforcement and eventually swat.

We live in SE Texas and want to keep our triaining in Texas though well go as far as Dallas, Nacogdoches, Ausin, San Antonio, Beaumonte, and Corpus Christi. Price is not so much an issue(you get what you pay for), we just want to get the best available.

Specifically we want classes for Defensive pistol, conceal carry, home defense, assual rifle and night time/ low light tactics.

Oh, man. That's a much tougher question that you may realize. Not to sound flip, but it depends on where you're coming from, where you are now, and where you want to go...skills-wise. There are tons of choices in Texas, both from schools and instructors who make their homes here, and from visiting instructors who travel to Texas periodically to teach.

I'm not completely sure where to start. Thing is, the options aren't a tidy continuum; it's not like there is a straight path from first-time handgun owner to "master gunfighter." For example, most non-LEO civilian courses, what John Farnam would refer to as an "independent operator," seldom include team tactics. However, Clint Smith highlights this if a husband-and-wife tandem is taking the course. Training philosophy and focus from experts who derive their experience primarily from military experience will differ from experts whose experience is in urban law enforcement. There are training courses for professionals--executive protection, for example--that are rigorous and in-depth, but will diverge from the need-to-know areas of most CHL holders.

Based on what you said in your first paragraph, my guess is what you're looking for to start is very good, but basic, defensive handgun instruction. In and around Houston you can find KR Training in College Station, Brian Hoffner in Houston out of Top Gun, Tim and Phil Oxley who teach out of the Impact Zone in West Houston, and don't overlook courses like the NRA's Personal Protection Inside and Outside the Home.

IMHO, to get started, you want to find reputable training, not what some will label "the best." You'll find accomplished gunmen who'll say if you want the best in Houston, call MAST Solutions; if you can travel to Nacogdoches, Paul Howe is a must-attend. SPEC Ops Systems out of Greenville has hosted active USSOCOM instructors like Glenn Boodry. But where you are now, what you're physically capable of (of huge significance as you get older; trust me), and how far and to where you want to take your training all must be carefully considered.

When in doubt, start conservatively. Don't waste too much time trying to find "Master Yoda." He may not exist.

And that leads me to my final caveat: There is no one "best" system; there is no one "best" instructor. There are many valid analogies to the combative and martial arts (after all, fighting is fighting), but this one is fundamental. What Fairbairn saw in WWI technique he deconstructed and modified; what Fairbairn taught was modified by Applegate; what Applegate taught was deconstructed and modified by Jeff Cooper; what Cooper taught has been deconstructed and modified, is being modified as we speak, and new techniques of the modern gunman are being taught by scores of excellent, expert instructors across the country.

Do your research, pick a course, and enter into it wholly and unreservedly committed. If the guy says the pistol should always be fired upside-down with the pinky finger, don't question it. Just do it and absorb the instruction.

But never let your brain stop working and, IMHO, never stay exclusively with a single instructor or instructional method. Be sharp, open-minded, and analytical. Some instructors have a codified system: this is done this way, that is done that way. But the reason Cooper was able to leap beyond Applegate was because he applied analysis and innovation to what had come before.

Sorry. Somehow this turned into a zen of training thing.

Bottom line: Get as much reputable training as you can. If money isn't an issue, also travel outside of Texas to places like Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, and Blackwater. When you're in their house, their method and system is law. When you're back home, compare it to what you learned from other instructors; carefully analyze what did and didn't make sense to you. Make up your mind...then go practice!

I have no experience with them, but I have heard great things about CSAT - Combat Shooting and Tactics.

They do a lot of LEO courses, but have a few civilian ones every year. They are located in Nacogdoches and run by Paul Howe, who is extremely well respected and has the real world experience to back up the training he offers. At some point I heard that he is one of the Delta Force snipers who volunteered to drop in at the helicopter wreckage in Mogadishu, but refused to let them use his name in Blackhawk Down.

http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Be sure to let us know what you decide on and how it is!

My suggestion is to get in contact with Gregg Garrett who owns Comp-Tac. The man is an amazing instructor and his classes fit what your are asking about. And if you aren't aware he is in Houston.

You can get in touch with him through Comp-Tac http://www.comp-tac.com/contact_us.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I realize that I may be in a minority with my opinion, but I believe that the best schools for combat handgun-craft are operated by people who have real world experience in being shot-at and shooting back.

Don't be afraid to ask your potential instructor(s) for their bona fides in this regard as there are numerous Walter Mittys out there who are great technicians-with-theories, but are very lean on the experience of actually having had to apply those theories.

You don't need a "school", IMO, find a range that will let you set up an IDPA/USPSA/IPSC style shooting scenarios and practice/train yourselves and save a bunch of money so you can spend it on ammo. I have seen video's of those "shooting schools" and have realized its just an over glorified IDPA/USPSA/IPSC match. Buy snap caps, mix them in with live ammo and shoot different scenarios, load magazines to only 6 rounds to practice reloading.

We all have opinions, that said, I see no benefit in taking tactical team course for the average CHL holder.

Certainly, if one plans to go into law enforcement and ultimately SWAT, they'll teach you what's needed to know.

So, why spend all that money and time taking courses that may not be that taught the way LEO training requires.

You may have a hard time unlearning what's taught outside their parameters?

Furyataurus wrote:You don't need a "school", IMO, find a range that will let you set up an IDPA/USPSA/IPSC style shooting scenarios and practice/train yourselves and save a bunch of money so you can spend it on ammo. I have seen video's of those "shooting schools" and have realized its just an over glorified IDPA/USPSA/IPSC match. Buy snap caps, mix them in with live ammo and shoot different scenarios, load magazines to only 6 rounds to practice reloading.

The only time I got instruction that had any bearing on these sports was when I went to instructors of these sports. Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith) does not offer courses that resemble these sports unless you are referring to basic shooting drills such as drawing, hitting the target center of mass, and reloading. Gregg Garrett does compete in IDPA and very well but his classes unless you want it are all about personal protection using firearms.

Abraham wrote:We all have opinions, that said, I see no benefit in taking tactical team course for the average CHL holder.
Certainly, if one plans to go into law enforcement and ultimately SWAT, they'll teach you what's needed to know.
So, why spend all that money and time taking courses that may not be that taught the way LEO training requires.
You may have a hard time unlearning what's taught outside their parameters?

The only academy I went to that taught police tactics was the CA Hwy Patrol Academy, the others were aimed at civilian shooting needs for personal protection. If you want police training go to a police instructor if you want civilian training go to someone that offers that.

I have been fortunate to be a gradute of Langdon Tactical Shooting, CA Hwy Patrol Academy, Gordon Carrell Shooting Academy, and a multiple graduate of Thunder Ranch. Team tactics was one of the classes I took with my husband. I can NOT begin to tell you all the benefits I got from this class. There have been a few times when we have come home due to our house alarm going off and needed to secure it until PD arrives. (We always beat the PD as we live in the country.) We can do this with confidence as we have trained together. Knowing how to work together safely with loaded firearms is not something you can learn by yourselves. Shooting schools offer not only training in techniques but coaching to be sure that you have sufficient time to understand and remember those techniques. If you don't like the way someone instructs or the techniques they use you have learned that as well. I have found that even with the truly great Clint Smith, instructors won't force you do it their way. They will however tell you why they think their way is the best. This may encourage you to try it and find out that their technique has merit. Lastly it is very difficult to coach yourself. It is hard to objectively see bad habits and how to correct them. I also see little merit in reinventing the wheel. Why try to figure it out yourself when someone already has. Shooting is a deceptively difficult sport/skill to learn. Get the best instruction you can afford and use that to build upon.

My shooting and my ability as an instructor has benefited beyond measure from every instructor I have had and from the students I have had the pleasure of instructing.

all things considered I and my buddy like what we see in CSAT. Real world trainig done by people with real world, shoot them from cover because theyre shooting at you, experience. That place aside, as for more frequent and easily obtained training, I would like some good suggestions for the Houston Area.

Any links for these "Traveling Wonders" of pistol training? How to find them and when theyll come around?

Furyataurus wrote:You don't need a "school", IMO, find a range that will let you set up an IDPA/USPSA/IPSC style shooting scenarios and practice/train yourselves and save a bunch of money so you can spend it on ammo.

Training by yourself or with friends is worthwhile. However, a good teacher or coach can help improve skills. I think that's true for shooting, skiing, golf, and many other physical skills.

It's possible to learn mental skills by reading, but a good teacher can accelerate learning. (The key words being good teacher.)

CompVest wrote:Lastly it is very difficult to coach yourself. It is hard to objectively see bad habits and how to correct them. I also see little merit in reinventing the wheel. Why try to figure it out yourself when someone already has. Shooting is a deceptively difficult sport/skill to learn. Get the best instruction you can afford and use that to build upon.

My shooting and my ability as an instructor has benefited beyond measure from every instructor I have had and from the students I have had the pleasure of instructing.

Very well-written and important post.

Something that's easy to overlook is that defensive/combative shooting is not just about sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control. The techniques you employ when standing in one place at the range punching holes in stationary targets is only one, small aspect. Training for practical, defensive/combative purposes also includes most of the elements you'd associate with skilled athletics: things like visual/auditory perception/response, reaction time, eye-hand-coordination, gross- and fine-motor control, footwork, static and dynamic balance, speed, strength, endurance, and it even includes hand-to-hand and other-weapons combatives in conjunction with the use of a firearm.

Even among the world's best athletes it's difficult to find one that doesn't employ a coach...precisely for the reasons CompVest noted. You need to understand what it is you should be practicing at what point in your training, and you need an informed, objective eye to tell you if you're practicing correctly and what to change if you're not. Simply setting up some targets and going at it on your own may allow a modicum level of improvement, but it is also likely to ingrain improper habits that will need to broken down later if you seek out serious instruction. Again, I believe the analogy to martial arts is valid here.

A final FWIW about IDPA. When Wilson and Hackathorn and that bunch got together in the '90s to spin off a new shooting sport from USPSA, it was largely because they felt IPSC had lost the "practical" part of its name and they wanted a competition that was more closely based on reality.

However, IDPA is and always will be a game. It is not defensive handgun training. The number one consideration in IDPA courses-of-fire is safety, then later comes the intent to make them somewhat realistic within the confines of the sport, its rules, and range rules.

Is IDPA useful practice? You bet; and it's fun! You get many basic gun-handling skills from administrative activities (charging, loading, unloading, basic malfunction remediation) to drawing and presentation, one-hand and off-hand shooting, target transition, etc. You also get to do some movement and employ use of cover. You don't get gun-handling skills that would violate the safety requirements, things like injured-arm drills or transition to BUG. You know in advance what the course-of-fire is and where you're going to start, move to, and finish. There is shooting on the move, but there are no external forces influencing in what manner or how fast you move.

IDPA is not defensive training, and should never be construed as such. IDPA is on a rectangular range, for example; all the action takes place only in front of you in a very narrow slice of the real-world 360-degree pie. Not only do you never have to worry about what's behind you, but you must keep your muzzle pointed at all times within that narrow slice of the pre-established rectangle. Most of the targets are stationary, and of the ones that do move, very few move unpredictably and none truly simulate a human adversary who can move at will up, down, or in any direction and who can also use cover at will. As a game, some of the rules are arbitrary. A few examples: all reloads are to be initiated from behind cover, which makes general sense but may not be possible in a real-world confrontation; the course-of-fire determines the number of rounds on a target, which certainly is never a given in a defensive scenario; "tactical sequence" calls for all targets to be engaged with one round each before being engaged again, and that may not be a good idea in a real fight. And last, but extremely important, is that none of the targets shoot back, or charge you with a knife, or try to take your gun from you, or foul your draw while elbowing you in the face.

For what it is and was intended to be, IDPA is excellent, and I think everybody with a CHL should at least try it...odds are, once they try it, they'll try it again. But assuming that the activities seen in IDPA are the bases for advanced defensive/combative training has got the cart speeding along far in front of the horse.