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Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 2:02 pm**

http://www.10news.com/news/19562217/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I do not want this to become a discussion (per the rules of this part of the forum) but it seems to me this has wider implications than just a theological discussion...

I also know it does not need anyone implying that we need to post armed guards at our services either...So lets not go there just yet...

I think this simply stems from some of the nieghbors around this house complaining of a regular mass of vehicles parked on that street for this activity...

I believe this stems from a continued attack on folks who wish to live virtuous lives, that rub against others who just want to live...And the moral decline of the general population of this country is helping that along...

I seem to recall that the Constitution as written was designed to be more fit for a virtuous population (citizenry) than one beset with distractions based upon surface values and ignorance of virtuous traits...

But this is just my opinion...And I am far from perfect to be considered an authority on anything...

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 2:27 pm**

Either that, or maybe some of these people attending have been blocking driveways, or otherwise inconvenienceing them, affecting traffic on small streets, so after many complaints, they called the police, who dug up some law that allows them to tell them to stop.

I don't think religon has anything to do with it. I know that when my neighbors have graduation parties and such, that it really causes a problem on my street. But it only happens once a year, so it doesn't bother me.

If they did this every week, or multiple times a week, and after repeated nice requests to them to try and resolve the situation (park somewhere else, carpool, etc), nothing happened, I may very well complain as well. Especially if I can't get out of my driveway, or it causes major traffic problems.

Whether my neighbor was doing it for a religous reason, or just poker night with 15 friends wouldn't matter to me either way. They're still blocking the street.

Not saying that I know for sure that IS what's happening here, but it's a possibility, and we don't know the whole story.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 2:51 pm**

yep I have to agree with Dicion. The two houses directly across from me have (house A) a couple that have pool parties and cook outs on a weekly basis, and (house B) a group of single guys who are very active in their churches youth ministry. Between these two set of circumstance there is quite often no place to park on my street (luckily we have alley access to the garage) and trash in my yard. Now all of the people in both houses are very nice folks and good neighbors, but there does come a point where it gets a bit old.

The bible study groups "freedom To" is butting up against the neighbors "freedom From". Its probably not being driven by whats going on inside the house, its whats going on outside thats creating the friction.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 6:28 pm**

Maybe you guys need to read the story more closely. This unnamed County Gestapo Agent threatened the couple over holding a Bible Study in their house and gave them "...a written warning that listed 'unlawful use of land' and told them to 'stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit' -- a process that could cost tens of thousands of dollars." [emphasis mine] It has nothing to do with the neighbors complaining about people parking in the street, and if it does so what? The streets are public property and people can park there all they want unless there is an ordinance prohibiting it.

This is quite simply a blatant, Uncunstitutional abuse of power and it needs to be crushed.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 6:32 pm**

Broyles said, "The county asked, 'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?' She said, 'Yes.' 'Do you say amen?' 'Yes.' 'Do you pray?' 'Yes.' 'Do you say praise the Lord?' 'Yes.'"

Sounds like dinner at many households.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 6:39 pm**

I did read it, and I said:

maybe some of these people attending have been blocking driveways, or otherwise inconvenienceing them, affecting traffic on small streets, so after many complaints, they called the police, who dug up some law that allows them to tell them to stop.

This could still have been the result of people complaining to the local LE, and the local LE going 'well.. what do we have that we can use to tell them to stop' and finding this 'unlawful use of land' thing to hit them with in order to make the complainers happy.

As I said, we don't have the whole story.

If the police came, out of the blue, with No complaints, and did this, then yes, I agree. It is a total abuse of power. In this case, these people were not bothering anyone, so why bother them?
However, this story comes from San Diego, so this may well have been in some suburban area, and people may have complained, prompting the LE involvement.

Should it have gone down like this? No, as I said before, If I was their neighbor, and they were affecting me, I would kindly go speak with them about it myself before involving the LE. Even IF LE got involved, I'd hope that they would just go there and speak with them nicely first, before applying the iron fist of the law to a nice group of 15 people engaged in bible study.

Basically, do I support where it has gone? No. But I can see how it could have started, and got dragged out of hand from a few simple complaints.

The bigger problem is, if this 'unlawful use of land for religious assembly' law is actually on the books, how did it get there?

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 7:52 pm**

Better that the neighbors called the cops instead of being like the guy who shot at police after his dog killed his neighbor's cat.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 7:54 pm**

dicion wrote:Either that, or maybe some of these people attending have been blocking driveways, or otherwise inconvenienceing them, affecting traffic on small streets, so after many complaints, they called the police, who dug up some law that allows them to tell them to stop.

If that was the case. all the cop needed to do was to give parking tickets to those parked illegally and maybe getting a few car towed. They did not do that.

I don't think religon has anything to do with it. I know that when my neighbors have graduation parties and such, that it really causes a problem on my street. But it only happens once a year, so it doesn't bother me.

""The county asked, 'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?' She said, 'Yes.' 'Do you say amen?' 'Yes.' 'Do you pray?' 'Yes.' 'Do you say praise the Lord?' 'Yes.'"

And you think it didn't have anything to do with religion?

If they did this every week, or multiple times a week, and after repeated nice requests to them to try and resolve the situation (park somewhere else, carpool, etc), nothing happened, I may very well complain as well. Especially if I can't get out of my driveway, or it causes major traffic problems.

Whether my neighbor was doing it for a religous reason, or just poker night with 15 friends wouldn't matter to me either way. They're still blocking the street.

And all you would have to do is to get the car that was blocking your driveway towed away.

Not saying that I know for sure that IS what's happening here, but it's a possibility, and we don't know the whole story.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 8:02 pm**

JJVP, I agree with what you're saying about the parking tickets and towing. Personally, I wouldn't even do that. I'd go speak with them nicely about it, and try to resolve it that way before I even made any phone calls.

I think they asked those questions so that the people would 'hang themselves' in regard to this 'unlawful use of land for religious assembly' law that they supposedly reference.
I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time the police went in somewhere, with a planned way to get them to admit to violating a law they didn't know about.

I still don't believe it was specifically about religion, but rather about how they could get these people to stop the meetings.

If it was a poker game, and they went in asking things like 'were you playing poker?' 'were you using real money for your bets?' I don't think you'd be claiming the police were anti-poker, but rather they were trying to get them to admit to illegal gambling.

As I have said before, we don't have the full story, so we can only speculate.

If these officers Were truly doing this as a form of Religious Persecution, then I completely agree that it is Totally Wrong.
I like to give LE the benefit of the doubt though when possible.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 8:02 pm**

Tell 'em to Rent a Room!

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 8:17 pm**

More News:

http://www.10news.com/news/19585458/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A local pastor said the County has cited him for hosting a weekly Bible study in his home. The County said visitors who drive to those meetings are affecting traffic in the neighborhood.
...
Jones said a visitor to a neighbor's house called the County after a Bible study member hit the visitor’s car while leaving. Shortly after, a county code enforcement officer gave him a citation that said he needed a permit to host the weekly Bible study meetings, he said.
...
A County spokeswoman says the County is concerned with parking and its impact on the neighborhood.

So someone DID call the cops and complain, because someone hit their car and possibly didn't fess up to it. I know that would definitely make me livid if someone clipped my car, and didn't let me know.

Did the police overreact, go overboard, and outstep their reach by trying to ban these meetings outright because of the permit law? Yes, I believe so.
However, I still think they were just looking for a way to make the complainant happy, rather then trying to stifle their religious practices.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 8:55 pm**

If there is another issue and they are taking this line to "solve" the problem then I have to say bad government. If there is another problem then they need to address that problem directly rather than take a line that, to me at least, clearly violates the constitution. Lets say that some county official learned that someone had more than 1 gun and sold 1 to buy another, all via face to face transactions, and decided to force the home owner to give up their guns or get a get a permit to have a business in a residential area, get a business license, pay sales taxes, ect. It doesn't matter if the gun owner refused to mow his lawn or not, the issue at hand is "Does this course of action violate the Constitution of the United States" and if it does are we going to stand against it or put that old worthless document in the outhouse.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 10:29 pm**

Isn't San Diego in California?

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 11:24 pm**

never mind

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 11:58 pm**

I don't want to offend anyone, so excuse me if this steps on some toes.... but we had a similar experience with neighbors who hosted about 15 people (8 to 10 cars) Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night for a year or so until they moved out . Yaah!

Everyone would park curbside on the street... and they created quite a clog as ours is a very thin street. It wasn't awful or unbearable, but it was annoying, every single weekend and made us feel like there was a cult in the neighborhood. The folks that we encountered and greeted were always grin and nod, gin and nod.
After having been there, done that... I can almost relate to the way the San Diego County official was leaning.

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