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TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:04 pm
by hi-power
Handguns Will Be Allowed in Tennessee Bars and Restaurants

Handguns will be permitted in bars and restaurants in Tennessee starting next month after a new law was passed — but many venue owners plan to ignore it.

The law, which takes effect July 14, comes after state legislators voted to override the governor's veto.

The legislation retains an existing ban on consuming alcohol while carrying a handgun, and restaurant owners can still opt to ban weapons from their establishments.

Already, some are sounding off about the passage of the law. In Memphis, many bar owners are appalled by new legislation and are posting signs in their windows making it clear that weapons aren't allowed inside, despite what will soon become legal in the state.

"I do not think they mix well," Benny Carter, owner of Murphy's in Midtown Memphis, told FOX 13 in Memphis. "I don't think anybody does. I don't think I'm alone as a bar owner and proprietor."

Thirty-seven other states have similar laws.

The state Senate voted 21-9 on Thursday against Democratic Gov. Phil Bredesen's veto, a day after the House also voted 69-27 to override.

They overrode critics, including Bredesen, who said it's a bad idea to have guns and alcohol in close proximity.

Democratic Sen. Doug Jackson, the main sponsor of the bill, said state Safety Department records show handgun permit holders in Tennessee are responsible.

Of the roughly 218,000 handgun permit holders in Tennessee, 278 had their permits revoked last year, records show. Since 2005, state records shows nearly 1,200 people have lost their permits.

Revocations are issued for felony convictions, while permits can be suspended for pending criminal charges or for court orders of protection.

Sen. Andy Berke was the only senator to speak against overriding the veto Thursday.

"I believe that we should follow the governor and rethink what we have done," he said.

The law, which was supported by the National Rifle Association, has been successful in other states, its chief lobbyist said.

"Of those 37 states, not one state has attempted to repeal or amend those statutes because they've been successful," Chris Cox said.

Bredesen spokeswoman Lydia Lenker said after Wednesday's House vote that the Democratic governor expected an override when he vetoed the legislation last week.

Following Thursday's Senate vote, Bredesen, who is a gun owner and hunter, reiterated his stance to reporters.

"I still think I'm right," he said. "I still think that guns in bars is a very bad idea. It's an invitation to a disaster."

I also found this on the governor's website and thought it was interesting:
Governor Phil Bredesen today vetoed House Bill 962, which would permit the possession of firearms in Tennessee restaurants and bars. Law enforcement officials and district attorneys from across the state flanked Bredesen as he spoke about his reasons for the veto.

"Let me be very clear: I am a strong supporter of the right to keep and bear arms. I am, and have always been, committed to preserving the rights of the Second Amendment: basic American rights. These rights are protected by the United States Constitution and the Tennessee Constitution as well," Bredesen said.

"However, these rights, for more than two centuries, have come with reasonable and necessary rules and guidelines. This bill crosses the line of reason. I have been a gun owner for over 50 years. When I was a young man, I took my first gun safety class – sponsored by the NRA – at my high school. There was one message conveyed during that class that has been imprinted on me since, and it was this: guns and alcohol don’t mix. That’s as true today as it was then.

"It is because of this principle that Tennessee state law has long prohibited the possession of firearms in places that serve alcohol. House Bill 962 would remove this safeguard in a manner that I, as well as many law enforcement officers, believe would be reckless and lacking safeguards to ensure public safety.

"A key role of government is to ensure public safety. To do that government must strike a balance between the rights afforded to us by the Constitution and common-sense rules that must be applied to the exercise of these rights. I believe we can exercise our second amendment rights and common sense at the same time – and guns and bars simply don't mix.

"Because of this, I am vetoing this bill and respectfully asking the legislature to rethink this issue."
I don't think any of the opposition to this law is rooted in reality. I haven't found the actual law yet, but I think state parks were also included in it. Glad cooler heads prevailed.

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:52 pm
by Keith B
I go to Tennesee periodically, so this will be a big help when I go to Chili's! :hurry:

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:19 pm
by DoubleJ
some idiot wrote:"I do not think they mix well," Benny Carter, owner of Murphy's in Midtown Memphis, told FOX 13 in Memphis. "I don't think anybody does. I don't think I'm alone as a bar owner and proprietor."
I agree, they don't mix. maybe somebody should write a law that says.... Oh, Wait, they already did.

dum foo' idjit.

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:52 pm
by Oldgringo
Keith B wrote:I go to Tennesee periodically, so this will be a big help when I go to Chili's! :hurry:
I remember when Printer's Alley was an alley of 'brown bag' knife and gun clubs. If a bar is defined in my home state as it is in Texas (Chili's ain't no bar), I agree with the Gov.

Gasoline, gunpowder and alcohol don't mix very well, y'all. :fire

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:05 pm
by boomerang
If cops can carry in a cop bar, it's immoral to prohibit similar behavior by citizens.

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:52 pm
by Oldgringo
boomerang wrote:If cops can carry in a cop bar, it's immoral to prohibit similar behavior by citizens.
Is a cop bar kinda' like a gay bar except it's for cops? :mrgreen:

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:45 pm
by boomerang
Oldgringo, there's no need to feel down.
I said, Oldgringo, pick yourself off the ground.
I said, Oldgringo, 'cause you're in a new town
There's no need to be unhappy.

Image

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:43 pm
by joe817
All jocularity aside :lol: I think this will be a good test case demonstration, at how badly the anti-gunners out there misjudged the CHL holder. And POOF! . Another anti-gun argument bites the dust. There will be no blood on the barstools, as they once said about the 'blood on the streets' argument made years ago, when concealed carry laws were passed in all of those states.

It will become a non-issue(I pray)

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:39 am
by kd5zex
joe817 wrote:All jocularity aside :lol: I think this will be a good test case demonstration, at how badly the anti-gunners out there misjudged the CHL holder. And POOF! . Another anti-gun argument bites the dust. There will be no blood on the barstools, as they once said about the 'blood on the streets' argument made years ago, when concealed carry laws were passed in all of those states.

It will become a non-issue(I pray)
I was thinking the exact same thing.

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:02 am
by cowboymd
Oldgringo wrote:
Keith B wrote:I go to Tennesee periodically, so this will be a big help when I go to Chili's! :hurry:
I remember when Printer's Alley was an alley of 'brown bag' knife and gun clubs. If a bar is defined in my home state as it is in Texas (Chili's ain't no bar), I agree with the Gov.

Gasoline, gunpowder and alcohol don't mix very well, y'all. :fire
I believe current Tn law is no CHL in "any place that sells alcohol" not like Texas law with the 51% rule, so this will free up restraunts that don't post a sign. I have family there, so this will be a + for me.

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:14 am
by Oldgringo
cowboymd wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:
Keith B wrote:I go to Tennesee periodically, so this will be a big help when I go to Chili's! :hurry:
I remember when Printer's Alley was an alley of 'brown bag' knife and gun clubs. If a bar is defined in my home state as it is in Texas (Chili's ain't no bar), I agree with the Gov.

Gasoline, gunpowder and alcohol don't mix very well, y'all. :fire
I believe current Tn law is no CHL in "any place that sells alcohol" not like Texas law with the 51% rule, so this will free up restraunts that don't post a sign. I have family there, so this will be a + for me.
I too have family in Nashville. If you're correct, I'm all for CC in eatin' places that may sell an alcoholic beverage to consenting :mrgreen: adults - sorta' as we do inTexas.

As far as "bars" are concerned, well...."you pays your money and you takes your chances". I don't go in bars, so what do I care? My religion forces me to go in a closet, turn out the lghts and close the door if I want a 'snort' or two. "rlol"

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:50 pm
by A-R
I actually think Texas - especially with new changes coming to require posting of 51% signs - has the best and most well thought out laws regarding CHL carry around alcohol. Denying my right to carry a gun into a Chili's like establishment, just because alcohol is available, is not right, IMHO. It's going to be difficult for me while driving through New Mexico and Arizona (which both prohibit guns anywhere even one glass of beer is served, IIRC) this summer - but not nearly as tough as locking up the gun and ammo separately in the trunk in Kalifornia will be.

But I would actually take this a step further. Why should I not be able to carry into a bar or other establishment that makes 51% off alcohol as long as I am not intoxicated myself? I agree with most here, I think, in that I don't frequent bars like I did when I was younger. But if I wanted to go into a pool hall to meet some friends or a sports bar to watch a game, why should I have to disarm if I'm just drinking diet soda? One of the few encounters in my life where I thought -briefly - that I may have to defend my life or the lives of others was leaving a bar when accosted by a drunk fool and his 3 drunk friends. I was sober. They were not. Why were my rights to self defense taken away?

Banning CHL under any circumstances simply because alcohol is more available stinks of a form of preemptive penalty for a possible crime that may or may not ever happen.

I am not advocating for drunks to have firearms. I am advocating for sober law-abiding citizens to have the right to firearms for self defense when they find themselves in the uneasy proximity of drunks.

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:38 pm
by Oldgringo
austinrealtor wrote:
I am not advocating for drunks to have firearms. I am advocating for sober law-abiding citizens to have the right to firearms for self defense when they find themselves in the uneasy proximity of drunks.
IMHO, there is a gigantic difference between finding oneself in the proximity of drunks and placing oneself in the proximity of drunks. I think the law speaks to/allows for these two different situations ? :tiphat:

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:11 pm
by A-R
Oldgringo wrote:
austinrealtor wrote:
I am not advocating for drunks to have firearms. I am advocating for sober law-abiding citizens to have the right to firearms for self defense when they find themselves in the uneasy proximity of drunks.
IMHO, there is a gigantic difference between finding oneself in the proximity of drunks and placing oneself in the proximity of drunks. I think the law speaks to/allows for these two different situations ? :tiphat:
Understand your point, but why should I be prohibited from going where I want to go (isn't that the very definition of liberty and freedom?) just because I choose to carry for self defense? I understand I should be prohibited from being intoxicated or otherwise mentally impaired while carrying, but if I am sober while others around me are not, why am I penalized? Just because someone chooses to enter a 51% establishment doesn't make them less of a citizen, regardless of anyone's thoughts on such establishments. I don't go to many 51% places anymore, but I wish I had the right to do so legally with CHL.

It's just a question of how much of a Nanny-state are willing to live with? If I am sober and hanging out with friends in a 51% establishment, then I am no more danger to anyone than being sober and hanging out at Starbucks.

Re: TN Legislature Overrides Gov on Restaurant/Bar Carry

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:25 pm
by boomerang
austinrealtor wrote:Understand your point, but why should I be prohibited from going where I want to go (isn't that the very definition of liberty and freedom?) just because I choose to carry for self defense? I understand I should be prohibited from being intoxicated or otherwise mentally impaired while carrying, but if I am sober while others around me are not, why am I penalized? Just because someone chooses to enter a 51% establishment doesn't make them less of a citizen, regardless of anyone's thoughts on such establishments. I don't go to many 51% places anymore, but I wish I had the right to do so legally with CHL.

It's just a question of how much of a Nanny-state are willing to live with? If I am sober and hanging out with friends in a 51% establishment, then I am no more danger to anyone than being sober and hanging out at Starbucks.
Don't forget professional golf tournaments, graduate symposiums at universities, chaperoning a kindergarden field trip, etc.

Some people hate guns. Others hate anyone except police and the military having guns. Unfortunately those bigots have some political power.