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I can't believe there's not already a thread on this.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,565640,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder if they've considered the fact that there are probably several hundred knives and forks in their cafeteria that the kids use during lunch. I wonder if the people responsible for those will receive the same consideration as this little boy?

It has a knife. He took it to school. I get it. Change the rule to be able to apply "intent"...it's good. I took Papaw's War 1911 to elementary school as show and tell in San Angelo, Tx. I was born in '67...so about 5th grade history? 11? 12? Nothing bad happened...alll day. As it is...a Bic pen works pretty well as a weapon too...It should be about intent.

D

This is the sort of foolishness that happens all the time with "zero tolerance" (read zero thought) policies. They leave the school administrators with no wiggle room to let kids off lightly when something like this happens, and are designed to give them the defense that its policy and there is no room for interpretation. LaserTex, you are exactly right that it SHOULD be about intent, but there has been so much demand that schools "do something to curb the violence" that school boards have taken measures to the ridiculous extremes that parents have demanded. This is simply the expected result. Its the same as when a high school girl is suspended for giving her friend a Pamprin for menstrual cramps and pain "because the school administrators and teachers aren't druggists or nurses, so consequently are unable to tell for sure that its really just a Pamprin."

If you go to the NY Times story that the Fox one is based on, you will also find out a NY school expelled a third grader because her gramma baked a cake for her to take to school for birthday party -- and sent along a knife to cut it with. The teacher used the knife to cut the cake -- and then reported the little girl to the administration, who EXPELLED her from school. The NY legislature actually passed a law to prevent that from happening again -- but it doesn't apply to "suspensions" so the Cub Scout gets to go to "reform school" for 45 days. Hopefully his parents will tell the school to.... well, anyway, keep home schooling him from here on out.

The public school system, especially in places like NY, seems out of control. And I am not talking about the students.

My daughter was at the school nurse and she (my daughter) asked if I could bring her something for a headache. The nurse would not give her anything. She would send her home but not get her anything so she could stay in school. I proceeded to bring her an ibuprofen. The nurse said I could not give it to her because it was not in the original container or something absurd like that. I told her that the State of Texas has given me the authority to dispense all schedules of medications and she was going to tell me that I couldn't. District policy....Oh OK, then I will take her home if she is sick. Very aggravating to go head to head with someone who cannot reason.

"Zero tolerance" absolves teachers and administrators from the responsibility to apply logic, discretion and common sense to a situation.

bdickens wrote:"Zero tolerance" absolves teachers and administrators from the responsibility to apply logic, discretion and common sense to a situation.

They have had to resort to that because many Educators have absolutely no logic, discretion or common sense to guide them.

C-dub wrote:I can't believe there's not already a thread on this.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,565640,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder if they've considered the fact that there are probably several hundred knives and forks in their cafeteria that the kids use during lunch. I wonder if the people responsible for those will receive the same consideration as this little boy?

Thanks goodness the school board overturned the decision last night. But this is one more reason to get your kids out of the liberal indoctrination centers.

macadamia, academia their both nuts

AndyC wrote:

Jennifer Jankowski, who runs the special education programs at Jennie Smith Elementary in Newark, said schools need to be vigilant about protecting students. If Zachary or another student had been hurt by the knife, she said, the district would have taken the blame.

"If we can't punish him, then what about kids that did bring (a weapon) for bad things?" Jankowski said. "There's more to the school's side than just us being mean and not taking this child's interests into account."

Typical anti logic there. It's the misuse of a tool that counts, lady - not possession of the tool itself.

You've nailed it... that's the continual problem in society today with guns and other things. We've removed intent instead of applying logic to common everyday situations.

I take some exception to the comments about educators having the sense to determine intent. My mother was a school teacher for many, many years. No "zero" policy. Determinations were made and decisions made based on the educators knowledge and understanding of the child and the action. Those that "transgressed" were punished. If the transgression was severe, they got the paddle.

And they paddled me something fierce when I stepped out of line (I was a naughty child. ).. because my mother was a teacher, the rod was not spared, it was probably laid on thicker.

Which may be the biggest problem today: corporal punishment is somehow "bad".

TLE2 wrote:I take some exception to the comments about educators having the sense to determine intent. My mother was a school teacher for many, many years. No "zero" policy. Determinations were made and decisions made based on the educators knowledge and understanding of the child and the action. Those that "transgressed" were punished. If the transgression was severe, they got the paddle.

And they paddled me something fierce when I stepped out of line (I was a naughty child. ).. because my mother was a teacher, the rod was not spared, it was probably laid on thicker.

Which may be the biggest problem today: corporal punishment is somehow "bad".

IMO the elimination of corporal punishment was the beginning of discipline breakdown in the schools. With no apparent consequences for a student's actions, what stopped them from further and more advanced transgressions?

joe817 wrote:

TLE2 wrote:I take some exception to the comments about educators having the sense to determine intent. My mother was a school teacher for many, many years. No "zero" policy. Determinations were made and decisions made based on the educators knowledge and understanding of the child and the action. Those that "transgressed" were punished. If the transgression was severe, they got the paddle.

And they paddled me something fierce when I stepped out of line (I was a naughty child. ).. because my mother was a teacher, the rod was not spared, it was probably laid on thicker.

Which may be the biggest problem today: corporal punishment is somehow "bad".

IMO the elimination of corporal punishment was the beginning of discipline breakdown in the schools. With no apparent consequences for a student's actions, what stopped them from further and more advanced transgressions?

I agree. It only took one paddling from my principal my Freshman year in High School (he was a former linebacker for the L.A. Rams) to cure me of my attitude problems, which were many up until that point. After those licks, I never acted up again...well, not in school, anyway.

Yesterday it got worse. An Eagle Scout, awaiting appointment to West Point, was 'busted' by another over achieving school district. He had a 2" pocket knife, in a survival pack, LOCKED in his car.

May lose a chance to go to West Point. Suspended for ?? days.

This crap has to stop!