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http://geoff82.wordpress.com/2006/11/27 ... f-defense/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Here are the basic rules for self-defense in Britain:

You are permitted to protect yourself with a briefcase, a handbag, or keys. You should shout “Call the Police” rather than “Help.” Bystanders are not to help. They have been taught to leave such matters to the professionals. If you manage to knock your attacker down, you must not hit him again or you risk being charged with assault."

Wow

marksiwel wrote:http://geoff82.wordpress.com/2006/11/27 ... f-defense/
"Here are the basic rules for self-defense in Britain:

You are permitted to protect yourself with a briefcase, a handbag, or keys. You should shout “Call the Police” rather than “Help.” Bystanders are not to help. They have been taught to leave such matters to the professionals. If you manage to knock your attacker down, you must not hit him again or you risk being charged with assault."

Wow

Self-defense is apparently a misnomer in Britain.

the brits ought to spend more time and energy telling the bad guys what they can or cannot do...

If you manage to knock your attacker down, you must not hit him again or you risk being charged with assault."

Incredible! Self defense is a crime over there! *shakes his head*

I am actually at a loss for words. The thought of not being able to protect myself against deadly force with deadly force is flabbergasting. It really reminds me of 1984. Big Brother is watching you helplessly defend yourself and he laughs at your inability to do so. Then arrests you.

Wasn't it a Brit that wrote "1984"? Aldous Huxley or some-such typical Brit-name?

Purplehood wrote:Wasn't it a Brit that wrote "1984"? Aldous Huxley or some-such typical Brit-name?

George Orwell, who also wrote "Animal Farm".

Aldous Huxley wrote "Brave New World."

marksiwel wrote:http://geoff82.wordpress.com/2006/11/27 ... f-defense/
"Here are the basic rules for self-defense in Britain:

You are permitted to protect yourself with a briefcase, a handbag, or keys. You should shout “Call the Police” rather than “Help.” Bystanders are not to help. They have been taught to leave such matters to the professionals. If you manage to knock your attacker down, you must not hit him again or you risk being charged with assault."

Wow

I agree that the general spirit of these rules for "self-defense" (a horribly overused term, in my opinion) is defective in the real world. If you are faced with a threat, timidity is not a virtue. Thinking about what may or may not be "permitted" is unhelpful when the situation requires immediate action in the form of evasion, cover, or counterattack, using purpose-designed weapons as needed.

Just to play the devil's advocate here, I want to examine

"If you manage to knock your attacker down, you must not hit him again or you risk being charged with assault."

Temporarily setting aside the legal or TPC criteria (I admit others have better understanding on that than I have), I want to look at the practical aspects of hitting someone who has been knocked down on the ground. Either you stay on your feet and move closer while focusing your attention on a target on the ground while striking him with hands or feet, or you go to the ground on his level to bring your hands/arms in closer range of his body. If I seek to prioritize my own well-being over "finishing" the other guy, I do not want to be fixated upon kicking, stomping or striking a target below eye level, because it diverts my attention from other potential threats that may be outside my field of vision and otherwise impairs my general awareness. If I choose to join him on the ground and dominate and strike him from the top position, not only do I lose my foot mobility, but there is the possibility the other guy has some skills and can pull off a reversal (putting me underneath him) and otherwise cause real problems for me, which could have been avoided if I had been willing to quit while I was ahead.

All that said, if you find yourself grounded with a VCA through no fault of your own and cannot extricate yourself for whatever reason, it would be nice to have some skills to achieve a reversal if needed, or "soften up" the VCA and create a opportunity to escape. But willingly closing with a grounded VCA to strike him, or joining him on the ground, may be disastrous in a fluid situation fraught with unknowns, such as a situation where you need to use force or deadly force.

Maybe the British advice about striking a downed attacker is analogous to the correct time, displayed twice daily, by a motionless broken clock.

LarryH wrote:

Purplehood wrote:Wasn't it a Brit that wrote "1984"? Aldous Huxley or some-such typical Brit-name?

George Orwell, who also wrote "Animal Farm".

Aldous Huxley wrote "Brave New World."

Evidence of my senility kicking in...thanks.

Also ruins the effect of the irony intended. Dang.

for what it's worth, Orwell was also English

LarryH wrote:for what it's worth, Orwell was also English

Thank you, that is indeed fortuitous.

I work with a Brit that has naturalized here in the US. It has been a hoot to hear him drone on about how great it is over there. He has heard from other folks that I am a "conservative" and started a conversation with me about health care. After he told him the wonderful thing managed health care is, I asked him if he read the bill? After he dodge the question a few times, he said no and said that he wont. Managed health care is best, etc.

then he switched over to guns and pulled out the tired example of when they outlawed guns, gun crime went down. I tried to explain that while that may be true, knife and other crimes went through the roof. His response was that was propaganda by the NRA (I never mentioned where I got my stats). If he only knew........

I have another friend at my job that is Canadian and he is also anti-gun. The stories he tells me about passiveness make me sick to my stomach. I have had conversations with both of them and finally said that I cant explain it, but being born in America has put something in my DNA that if someone tries to hurt me, I am gonna do my darndest make sure you dont hurt me or mine.

marksiwel wrote:http://geoff82.wordpress.com/2006/11/27 ... f-defense/
"Here are the basic rules for self-defense in Britain:
You are permitted to protect yourself with a briefcase, a handbag, or keys. You should shout “Call the Police” rather than “Help.” Bystanders are not to help. They have been taught to leave such matters to the professionals. If you manage to knock your attacker down, you must not hit him again or you risk being charged with assault."
Wow

Sounds more like the rules for self-destuction instead of self-defense.

LarryH wrote:

Purplehood wrote:Wasn't it a Brit that wrote "1984"? Aldous Huxley or some-such typical Brit-name?

George Orwell, who also wrote "Animal Farm".

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/arti ... r-house.do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yerasimos wrote:I want to look at the practical aspects of hitting someone who has been knocked down on the ground.

Knee drop, keeping your back straight and head up. Rock back onto your feet and get lost before he recovers.