TexasCHLforum.com

For the purposes of carrying, what is a "school"?

Does this mean primary, secondary and university type schools?

Does it include the South West School of Art and Craft? (http://www.swschool.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Does it include a driving school?

How about a commercial dance school?

I've searched the docs I have, and can't find a definition of "school" though the firearms prohibition is loud and clear.

bob

There are a lot of different opinions on this, here on the forum and elsewhere.

However, the law only prescribes to primary and secondary schools, and only in the buildings or a school sponsored activity (more debate what that really is later). I am not a lawyer, but my opinion and some others is unless it is a public or private learning institution accredited by the Texas Education Agency or the agency that accredits private schools recognized by the state, then it is NOT a school per the intent of the statute.

Now, as for the school sponsored event, there are a lot of discussions on here, but the concensus is it has to be like a football game, band concert, or other similar school event that is specifically held for that reason. A field trip to an art museum or school bus of band students stopping at McDonald's would not make them off limits.

Hope that helps.

That does help, thanks.

Is there any statute that someone can point me to that would make it solid, or is this a matter of interpretation and custom?

bob

Keith B wrote: I am not a lawyer, but my opinion and some others is unless it is a public or private learning institution accredited by the Texas Education Agency or the agency that accredits private schools recognized by the state, then it is NOT a school per the intent of the statute.

You know this is interesting language (I've noted it in the code as well) considering private schools aren't regulated in Texas. In fact you do not need a HS diploma, GED or otherwise to attend college, just sufficient SATs or relevant test score.

The Leeper vs. Arlington DISD home school case defined that, "Home schools are private schools and private schools are not regulated in the state of Texas."

Dragonfighter wrote:

Keith B wrote: I am not a lawyer, but my opinion and some others is unless it is a public or private learning institution accredited by the Texas Education Agency or the agency that accredits private schools recognized by the state, then it is NOT a school per the intent of the statute.

You know this is interesting language (I've noted it in the code as well) considering private schools aren't regulated in Texas. In fact you do not need a HS diploma, GED or otherwise to attend college, just sufficient SATs or relevant test score.

The Leeper vs. Arlington DISD home school case defined that, "Home schools are private schools and private schools are not regulated in the state of Texas."

There is a difference between a private school and home schooled. Many private schools are accredited through the Texas Private School Accreditation Commission (TEPSAC) which is approved by the Texas Education Agency. Here is the site that lists there schools that are private accredited. Home schools are not off-limits unless posted 30.06 or verbal written communication has been issued.

Keith B wrote: There is a difference between a private school and home schooled. Many private schools are accredited through the Texas Private School Accreditation Commission (TEPSAC) which is approved by the Texas Education Agency. Here is the site that lists there schools that are private accredited. Home schools are not off-limits unless posted 30.06 or verbal written communication has been issued.

So it's not regulation but accreditation, okay I get it. Thanks.

bobdavis wrote:That does help, thanks.

Is there any statute that someone can point me to that would make it solid, or is this a matter of interpretation and custom?

bob

There is debate on what is and isn't truly a school, and the statute is kinda gray on it, so nothing black and white. You many times have to look at the law and try to interpret the intent when written.

In this case, my opinion (which my wife often says doesn't count ) was the intent was to restrict carry in places of higher learning (elementary, middle and high schools) whether public or private (not school of dance, karate school, etc.) that had a physical campus and is accredited by the state as being a school.

However, I could be all wet with my interpretation.

Keith B wrote:However, the law only prescribes to primary and secondary schools, and only in the buildings or a school sponsored activity (more debate what that really is later).

So why do we need a campus carry bill if college students can carry legally now? Was it just to override school policy like the parking lot bill would override company policy?

Big Tuna wrote:So why do we need a campus carry bill if college students can carry legally now? Was it just to override school policy like the parking lot bill would override company policy?

Students cannot legally carry in class. Teachers cannot legally carry in class. No one but LE can carry inside any school building or event unless the event requires the use of a gun or have permission to do so from the school. What makes you think they can?

Aww man... I thought this was going somewhere. :-)

I have a Q to add to this then (or clear my confusion)... If you could somehow get permission from the college administration to carry concealed, then you could legally? (and NOT be LE)

I work in a private university...and was even more bummed than everyone else that the bill didnt pass last session. But I'll consider any loophole I can find. :-)

-Scott

Big Tuna wrote:

Keith B wrote:However, the law only prescribes to primary and secondary schools, and only in the buildings or a school sponsored activity (more debate what that really is later).

So why do we need a campus carry bill if college students can carry legally now? Was it just to override school policy like the parking lot bill would override company policy?

Sorry, colleges are also included for Texas CHL, but not in the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act.

scott_dfw wrote:Aww man... I thought this was going somewhere. :-)

I have a Q to add to this then (or clear my confusion)... If you could somehow get permission from the college administration to carry concealed, then you could legally? (and NOT be LE)

I work in a private university...and was even more bummed than everyone else that the bill didnt pass last session. But I'll consider any loophole I can find. :-)

-Scott

Yes

Now all I have to do is figure out the best person to request permission from.

I've considered doing the same thing at work, asking the right person, but I don't think anyone would stick their neck out over it or for me.

I think the correct answer to this question is "I don't know." There is no definition in the Penal Code of a school and out opinions have run all over the place. As far as I know, all of the public and private primary, secondary, and higher learning institutions have taken the law to include their campuses. I know some have taken pre-schools to be included too (especially when tied to a regular school district to really muddy things). What about church schools, like Sunday School? what about private for-profit schools that are not accredited, like the Hallmark Institute (I have no idea why anyone would go there, but..)? What about dance, driving, or trade schools (look at all the private "medical assistant' schools)? If you really want to go crazy, what about firearms schools?

This is going to take a new law or a court case to clarify. I want to make the law specifically say primary and secondary schools as defined in the Education Code, but I don't think it would pass. We will have a hard time getting a law passed to narrow this.