TexasCHLforum.com

How many of you worry about having a bill of sale when you sell a gun? Is it something that I really need to concern myself with? I've read up on both camps, some saying they do it in case the gun is used in a crime, and another saying even if it is, you don't usually get pressed much about it after you say you sold it.

samobius wrote:How many of you worry about having a bill of sale when you sell a gun? Is it something that I really need to concern myself with? I've read up on both camps, some saying they do it in case the gun is used in a crime, and another saying even if it is, you don't usually get pressed much about it after you say you sold it.

IMO, most people on the forum don't worry about a bill of sale and most prefer to sell to a person with a CHL. For me it depends on the identity of the buyer. I wouldn't sell a gun to someone who I didn't know.

Ive never given a bill of sale before and the few times some has given me one, it's disappeared into a trash can.

I refuse all Bill of Sales. Buyers and sellers that utilize a bill of sale typically say it's "to cover my own legal butt." I can understand that, but to me, it's no different than the government keeping records. SOOOO....I make SURE to COMPLETLY explain exactly what is expected at a face to face transaction so there are no hidden surprises.

I had ONE instance purchasing from some guy on Texas Gun Trader that agreed to my requirement of no paperwork. When we met, he popped out some books and background check paperwork and kept asking for my drivers license.... he was supposedly an FFL. I was so angry because I was supposed to buy a handgun for a great price... but I told him that he was very disrespectful for violating our terms of agreement and walked away. He wasted my time and his own and even later accused me of being a felon.

It's my understanding that in the state of Texas, in a "non-commercial or private" FTF transfer of a handgun, the seller must be able to "reasonably assume" that the buyer is a Texas resident and is legally able to own and/or possess a firearm. While it may be unreasonable to expect that the seller do a background check on the seller, IMHO it would NOT seem unreasonable to ask the buyer to produce an unexpired TDL to cover one's own butt. Asking to see a TDL is not "paperwork."

I won't sell a firearm without the buyer producing a TDL, but that's just me.

If they have a Texas area code and their car has Texas plates, it's reasonable to think they live in Texas. If they show a CHL it's reasonable to think they can legally own a gun. I don't need to write down their CHL number or SS number or the address where they sleep at night.

boomerang wrote:If they have a Texas area code and their car has Texas plates, it's reasonable to think they live in Texas. If they show a CHL it's reasonable to think they can legally own a gun. I don't need to write down their CHL number or SS number or the address where they sleep at night.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

boomerang wrote:If they have a Texas area code and their car has Texas plates, it's reasonable to think they live in Texas. If they show a CHL it's reasonable to think they can legally own a gun. I don't need to write down their CHL number or SS number or the address where they sleep at night.

Inversely without a bill of sale with the buyer's info and serial number I'd never sell a firearm.
I want to record the firearm has in fact been sold.
I want a record of whom it was sold to, so that if that firearm is ever used in a crime, it won't come back to me, that I have proof that its no longer mine. If you don't like those terms then you don't need to buy from me, and I don't have to sell to you.

frazzled wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:

boomerang wrote:If they have a Texas area code and their car has Texas plates, it's reasonable to think they live in Texas. If they show a CHL it's reasonable to think they can legally own a gun. I don't need to write down their CHL number or SS number or the address where they sleep at night.

Inversely without a bill of sale with the buyer's info and serial number I'd never sell a firearm.
I want to record the firearm has in fact been sold.
I want a record of whom it was sold to, so that if that firearm is ever used in a crime, it won't come back to me, that I have proof that its no longer mine. If you don't like those terms then you don't need to buy from me, and I don't have to sell to you.

with Frazzled. I sold a pistol to someone about six months ago and used a form I printed from one of the online sites; I think gunbroker.com; both of us filled out the form and kept a copy. It gives traceability in case something comes up later down the line. Nothing is called in, no forms sent to a government entity; just a copy kept for my records to cover my behind in case anything shady comes up later regarding the firearm and it's traced back to me. I wouldn't think your average law abiding citizen should have a problem with this. It's less information than they would have to give if they bought one from a dealer or store.

Pete92FS wrote:

frazzled wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:

boomerang wrote:If they have a Texas area code and their car has Texas plates, it's reasonable to think they live in Texas. If they show a CHL it's reasonable to think they can legally own a gun. I don't need to write down their CHL number or SS number or the address where they sleep at night.

Inversely without a bill of sale with the buyer's info and serial number I'd never sell a firearm.
I want to record the firearm has in fact been sold.
I want a record of whom it was sold to, so that if that firearm is ever used in a crime, it won't come back to me, that I have proof that its no longer mine. If you don't like those terms then you don't need to buy from me, and I don't have to sell to you.

with Frazzled. I sold a pistol to someone about six months ago and used a form I printed from one of the online sites; I think gunbroker.com; both of us filled out the form and kept a copy. It gives traceability in case something comes up later down the line. Nothing is called in, no forms sent to a government entity; just a copy kept for my records to cover my behind in case anything shady comes up later regarding the firearm and it's traced back to me. I wouldn't think your average law abiding citizen should have a problem with this. It's less information than they would have to give if they bought one from a dealer or store.

Yep. I'm not making any statements about those who don't do this, but if the counterparty is refusing such, that alone would give me pause about continuing the transaction. If its a comrade then they wouldn't have an issue either. To play the other side-if you're worried about giving them that information-mayhaps you also should think about completing the transaction.

In this age of people moving across country but keeping their cell phone number, I wouldn't go by area code. If they show up with Texas plates, that's good enough. If there's any doubt, I might ask them to show me a Texas DL while explaining that I wasn't going to record any information.

This is hypothetical, of course. Other than pawning a few guns in troubled times (I redeemed them all), the only time I've sold a gun was either in trade to an FFL (so I had to provide my info), or when I had my C&R FFL and bought a 5-fer intending to cull at least two or three of them (had to enter ID info in my bound book).

I've swapped a number of guns over the past few years.
As a rule I look for CHL holders. If not, I go by gut feel, and I may want to see a TX DL.
I won't offer or ask for a bill of sale unless the other party wants to and asks nicely, and only then if two copies are available.
And I've broken off transactions when the other party wanted more information than was called for.

I bought a gun last week, at a good price. After gun and money changed hands the seller whipped out a bill of sale, wanted TXDL number and signature, and only had one copy. I did it anyway, and left mad. Still kicking myself for not walking away. He was a rookie and probably nervous about selling to a stranger.
Won't happen again.

If the deal is cash for a gun then that's the deal. If someone wants paperwork, or a holster, or a back rub, those should be stated in the ad or during negotiations. Not after the deal is struck. It's rude to change the deal at the last minute, especially if someone had to drive a long way or leave work early.

frazzled wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:

boomerang wrote:If they have a Texas area code and their car has Texas plates, it's reasonable to think they live in Texas. If they show a CHL it's reasonable to think they can legally own a gun. I don't need to write down their CHL number or SS number or the address where they sleep at night.

Inversely without a bill of sale with the buyer's info and serial number I'd never sell a firearm.
I want to record the firearm has in fact been sold.
I want a record of whom it was sold to, so that if that firearm is ever used in a crime, it won't come back to me, that I have proof that its no longer mine. If you don't like those terms then you don't need to buy from me, and I don't have to sell to you.

frazzled wrote:Yep. I'm not making any statements about those who don't do this, but if the counterparty is refusing such, that alone would give me pause about continuing the transaction. If its a comrade then they wouldn't have an issue either. To play the other side-if you're worried about giving them that information-mayhaps you also should think about completing the transaction.

I agree. There's no reason someone needs to know my home address for a cash transaction. It's not like the check is going to bounce.

If someone tells me up front they want to know where I sleep or they want to write down my PII without an enforceable privacy agreement and notice, I'll politely decline. No harm done to either side. There are plenty of fish in the sea.

On the other hand, if someone is deceptive and demands my PII at the last minute, I have to wonder why they were hiding this from me. What else are they hiding from me? Is the gun stolen? Was it used in a robbery? Maybe they're completely legit but I would wonder. And I definitely wouldn't give them my personal info.