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Waiting on my CHL but just received my PIN. I have been looking at the Taurus Millenium Pro 45ACP versus the Glock 36 (over $200 premium for the Glock). I like the idea of the separate safety on the Taurus, versus the safety in the trigger on the Glock, but have never owned either gun. I was set on the Glock but am having second thoughts. Is it worth the extra money and is the "trigger safety" a real issue? Any guidance?

I try not to say bad things about guns/brands I have not owned/used/carried. I know a lot of people who trust their life to Taurus. There are others who feel it is an inferior brand. To each his own, I have no personal experience with the brand other than taking a few shots with a friend's or relative's gun at a range.

That said, Glock is one of the premier semi-automatic handgun manufacturers in the world for good reason. In the interest of full disclosure, I own several Glock handguns (and a Walther that is basically a Glock knock-off). The only complaints I consistently hear about Glock is that for certain people it just doesn't fit them right (the grip) and/or they just don't feel "safe" without a manually activated thumb safety.

The grip complaint I understand. Those polymer grips are large and can get slippery when wet (rain, sweat, whatever). There are fixes for this - including rubber grip sleeves, grip tape, and even "stippling" the grip with hundreds of tiny melted holes in the polymer itself using a soldering iron (extreme - but works).

The safety complaint, I understand but disagree. There is no difference between a Glock with no externally activated thumb safety vs. a revolver with no externally activated thumb safety. Sure, a standard Glock trigger pull is about 5 or 6 pounds vs. about 10 or more for a revolver. But if you really want the extra pull weight, there are different connectors and spring kits that can give a very similar pull weight to a revolver (this is what NYPD uses in all their Glocks).

Personally, I like to actually LIGHTEN the pull weight of my Glock a bit - down to 4.5 pounds. And I've never had a negligent discharge or any problem of any kind with a Glock (two NDs in my lifetime with pistols patterned on the Colt 1911 - not a knock on 1911s, just my experience - and I've learned from it). And I've carried a Glock or gun with similar-type action loaded with one in the chamber nearly every day for more than 12 years without incident. Literally thousands of police officers have done the same thing for even longer, with very few incidents. Just use a quality holster that covers the trigger guard completely and you'll be fine (don't EVER carry a Glock "Plaxico Burres style" tucked in a waistband without a holster or you too could suffer "Glock leg" as he did.

And Glocks are quite possibly the most rugged and reliable semi-auto handgun ever made (just review this website to find out how unbelievably rugged - http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?op ... view&id=90" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). They are accurate enough for any self-defense situation. They come in a variety of sizes and calibers (like the unique model 36 you mentioned). They are light and easy to carry. They don't rust unless you want them to (again, see link earlier in this paragraph).

But there are also other fine pistols out there in this general category of polymer-framed semi-autos. I strongly suggest you take a close look at Springfield XD, Smith & Wesson M&P, Beretta PX4, Ruger SR9, Walther P99, H&K and Sig (though they are pricier) in addition to Glock and Taurus.

And if the price premium is really a difficult obstacle to overcome, be sure to look for quality used Glocks. I've shot Glocks that looked wrung out from years of LEO use that shoot just fine and utterly reliable. If something doesn't feel quite right, a Glock Armorer can replace a few key parts and get it running like new (you can even do this yourself, but all the caveats of armchair gunsmithing are in effect). As long as the frame, slide, and barrel are in good shape, you can basically replace the rest of the entire gun for about $100 give or take. And you likely won't even need to do that. My 12-year-old Glocks still shoots as well as the day I bought it. I've replaced a few parts just "because", but didn't really need to (a few of the new parts are "improvements" - like the lighter trigger pull and an ejector with a loaded-chamber indicator).

Seems like I just recently saw a gently used G36 listed for sale either here or on TexasGunTrader.com for about $450. And if you don't mind a .40-cal instead of .45, you can regularly find police trade-in Glock 23s and 22s for $300 at GT Distributors in Austin. In fact, just recently saw some older Generation 2 models (no tac light mount up front - no finger grooves on grip) for $289 + tax at GT's.

As an FYI, the Glock 23 (with a double-stack mag holding 13 rounds of .40 S&W) is actually VERY similar in size to the Glock 36, which holds 6 rounds of .45 ACP in a single-stack mag). Put the two side-by-side some time. Here are the relevant numbers:

Glock 23 is 6.85 long x 5 tall x 1.18 wide and weighs 21 oz unloaded and 31 oz loaded
Glock 36 is 6.77 long x 4.76 tall x 1.13 wide and weighs 20 oz unloaded and 27 oz loaded

Howdy! Unlike A.R. I know everything, and shoot better than anyone on this forum, maybe on the entire internet...
Just kidding!
I've never owned a Taurus auto, but I did trust their revolvers enough to protect my wife and children (she carried a Taurus 650 - a hammerless .357 revolver) until she "stole"
my Glock 27 from me a few years ago. Actually I convinced her to "study" and practice with it and it is now her daily carry.
I purchased my first Glock in the early '90s - when I worked in a small gun shop and the infamous Luby's incident went down.
Here's the deal (IMHO):
If it fits your hand comfortably, you can't go wrong with a Glock. As A.R. said, as long as the trigger is covered by the holster it's a safe as a good 'ol DAO revolver.
If I didn't feel that way my G30 (the compact doublestack .45) wouldn't spend all day being carried "inside my waistband".
The design has been around a lot longer than the Taurus and subjected to all kinds of silly "torture" tests.
(Dropped from an airplane, dragged by a truck, buried in mud...the list goes on and on - and so do the test Glocks)
I'm not knocking any other brands/makes here - just sharing what I know.
Study the mechanical workings of a Glock - notice there are actually three safetys.
When it comes down to the math remember that if you are happy with your initial purchase you'll probably have what ever you decide on for years and years (kind of like getting married - perhaps even more intimate depending on your choice of carry methods).
FYI - there are ranges that rent guns, be sure to try out your potential "mate" prior to buying.
Personally, I really like and trust Glocks. I hope you find something you can feel as comfortable with.
Be sure to let us know!

austinrealtor wrote:I try not to say bad things about guns/brands I have not owned/used/carried. I know a lot of people who trust their life to Taurus. There are others who feel it is an inferior brand. To each his own, I have no personal experience with the brand other than taking a few shots with a friend's or relative's gun at a range.

In My Opinion, Taurus revolvers are rock solid, exceptionally good gear. I have not yet formed an opinion on their autos, though I've tried. There were supposedly some issues once upon a time which have supposedly been resolved. I hear very good things and some not so good things depending on who you're talking to.

I've never been a big Glock fan, but they do make an exceptionally reliable weapon. You'll be hard pressed to find any firearm more reliable than a Glock. As far as the safety, just keep your finger off the trigger except when you want it to go bang, and you'll be fine.
Most revolvers don't have a manual safety. You pull the trigger and it fires. Same with Glocks and some other autos. The trigger is much lighter than a double-action revolver, but not nearly as touchy as a single action pistol. Really not an issue if you keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

I have a friend who bought the Taurus PT145, but he is now considering selling it. I think that is more about that model and not Taurus in general though. I don't have any experience with Taurus either. Never really heard much good or bad.

I've had a Glock 22 for years and never had any issues with it. I know a guy who just got a Glock 21 in 45 and it shot reliably and surprisingly accurate. IMO, it is a very good choice. The main issue is to practice keeping your finger off the trigger and make sure everyone in your family who might come in contact with it understands that and how to properly unload it (remove mag, check the chamber). My only problem with Glocks is I don't like their compact models so I was only ever interested in their full size pistols.

IMO, most of the safety issues with Glocks are issues that affect ANY semi-auto pistol. In reality, you really should not trust your life to a mechanical safety.

The only other brand I could mention is CZ. The CZ 75 models are good pistols if you are interested in 9mm or 40. My CZ 75 P01 and P06 pistols in 9 and 40 are rock solid and pretty compact.

Before you buy a pig in a poke go to a range that rents guns and try before you buy. I used to own a Taurus PT100 (Beretta clone) it was an accurate reliable gun I just didn't like it. Two other pistols that you might want to look at are the S&W M&P and the Springfield XD they are both rock solid reliable guns and some models have thumb safeties if that is a requirement.

I'm not a Glock fan they build great guns they just don't feel right to me. I do own two M&Ps, and an XD and my wife has an M&P too. None have thumb safeties I don't feel they are necessary on guns of this design.

I have shot a number of Taurus products belonging to others over the years and never experienced any problems or heard any complaints. The only Taurus gun we own is a 1911, and it is a pretty good gun... ...for the price.

I think that is a comment you'll hear often about Taurus: a pretty good gun... ...for the price. They are a pretty decent brand at reasonable prices, and there is nothing wrong with owning one if that is what makes you happy. If you have limited funds, then the Taurus is a very good way to maximize your dollar.

The only Glock we own is my wife's G19. And we bought hers during the height of the post-Obama panic buying, so we paid a premium for it. You can find them for much cheaper now. It is a very business-like gun. This is my opinion only: Pretty much every other gun manufacturer tries to build a certain amount of "eye-candy" appeal into the design of their guns, regardless of the price point. Not Glock. Gaston Glock wouldn't care if his guns looked like cow patties as long as they worked... ...and that pretty much describes all Glocks — ugly as sin, and absolutely and dependably reliable. They flat work.

But don't take my word for it. I'm a Kimber 1911 snob, and I think Glocks make reliable mallets for use on your work bench. You could use a Glock as a hammer to drive home the mainspring housing pin on your 1911 during reassembly, and it wouldn't hurt the finish on the Glock or affect its function or accuracy. I would never do that with one of my 1911s. They are my babies. I could use my wife's Glock as a wheel chock (when she isn't looking), and it wouldn't hurt it one bit.

The point of all this is that, if you can get past the "oogly," I think that the Glock is worth $200 more than the Taurus.

MikeM:

As a Taurus owner of a rock solid reliable Millenium, and a
friend of others on the forum who have had PT140's and
PT145's that are similarly reliable - I'd go for the PT145
over the Glock. If it was just down to those 2 choices.
The PT145 is a 10 + 1 capacity. IIRC, the Glock 36 is less.

Yes, Glocks are reliable per the above comments.
Yes, you can carry a Glock safely as long as your trigger
finger is on the trigger ONLY at the time you need to shoot.

To me, the drawback to a Glock is the grip angle.
IMHO, it just doesn't feel right.

A Springfield XD is striker-fired and is considered by some
to be in a "cocked and locked" condition, ready to fire.
The advantage to an XD over a Glock is that it has a 1911-style grip
safety on the backstrap, plus it ergonomically feels much
better than a Glock, IMHO.

Try a bunch of the above-mentioned guns. Certain models
have multiple back straps available for small/med/large hands,
and that can also help you to choose a gun that's right for you.

Good luck in your search. The gun will be the easy part, it's
choosing your carry rig (holster, etc) that will be hard!

SIA

MoJo wrote:Before you buy a pig in a poke go to a range that rents guns and try before you buy. I used to own a Taurus PT100 (Beretta clone) it was an accurate reliable gun I just didn't like it. Two other pistols that you might want to look at are the S&W M&P and the Springfield XD they are both rock solid reliable guns and some models have thumb safeties if that is a requirement.

I'm not a Glock fan they build great guns they just don't feel right to me. I do own two M&Ps, and an XD and my wife has an M&P too. None have thumb safeties I don't feel they are necessary on guns of this design.

Seconded. What area are you bouncing around? Red's in the Austin area has a large selection of rentals; Top Gun in Houston is another.

There are lots of threads but you need to consider feel, carry style, weight and width. A rental is ideal for that (or knowing people who are cash light but pistol inventory heavy...none of those on this board... ).

Also a quality gun belt is absolutely key.

The Annoyed Man wrote:But don't take my word for it. I'm a Kimber 1911 snob, and I think Glocks make reliable mallets for use on your work bench. You could use a Glock as a hammer to drive home the mainspring housing pin on your 1911 during reassembly, and it wouldn't hurt the finish on the Glock or affect its function or accuracy. I would never do that with one of my 1911s. They are my babies.

Yep. The only time I will admit toscreaming like a girl was when I dropped my Kimber, not that it would go off, but that I might have hurt my baby!!!

frazzled wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:But don't take my word for it. I'm a Kimber 1911 snob, and I think Glocks make reliable mallets for use on your work bench. You could use a Glock as a hammer to drive home the mainspring housing pin on your 1911 during reassembly, and it wouldn't hurt the finish on the Glock or affect its function or accuracy. I would never do that with one of my 1911s. They are my babies.

Yep. The only time I will admit toscreaming like a girl was when I dropped my Kimber, not that it would go off, but that I might have hurt my baby!!!

Man, it's good to know I'm not the only one that loves his Kimber! My other guns are jealous...I almost never carry them any more!

frazzled wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:But don't take my word for it. I'm a Kimber 1911 snob, and I think Glocks make reliable mallets for use on your work bench. You could use a Glock as a hammer to drive home the mainspring housing pin on your 1911 during reassembly, and it wouldn't hurt the finish on the Glock or affect its function or accuracy. I would never do that with one of my 1911s. They are my babies.

Yep. The only time I will admit toscreaming like a girl was when I dropped my Kimber, not that it would go off, but that I might have hurt my baby!!!

And y'all wonder why a klutz like me carries a Glock instead of a 1911? When I drop my Glocks I worry about damaging the floor - the concrete floor in my garage.

So now the all important question ... if a Glock pistol and Chuck Norris collide head-on at 1000 miles per hour, will the Earth survive? Will the space-time continuum be altered? Or will they morph into the the greatest Transformer-esque killing machine in the history of the universe?

austinrealtor wrote: So now the all important question ... if a Glock pistol and Chuck Norris collide head-on at 1000 miles per hour, will the Earth survive? Will the space-time continuum be altered? Or will they morph into the the greatest Transformer-esque killing machine in the history of the universe?

Can I opt for Transformer?

austinrealtor wrote:So now the all important question ... if a Glock pistol and Chuck Norris collide head-on at 1000 miles per hour, will the Earth survive? Will the space-time continuum be altered? Or will they morph into the the greatest Transformer-esque killing machine in the history of the universe?

I think it is more relevant to ask, "if there were a global nuclear conflagration and all human life was wiped out, who would be the last standing — a cockroach, or my wife's G19?"

And yes, if I dropped my Kimber, I would scream like a little girl. My son actually did drop my wife's G19 at the DPC range one day. It was empty with no magazine in it, and it landed slide down on some coarse gravel. My wife's back was turned at the time. He looked at me, I looked at him, and we both started chuckling. He picked it up and it didn't even make a mark on it. My wife turned around to ask us what was so funny. "Oh, nothing dear." They really are indestructible.



Back to the topic... I obviously think highly of the Glock platform, but the bottom line is what makes you comfortable. As much as I think of the Glock, I don't carry one because the grip isn't right for me, at least in the larger calibers. My non-1911 carry gun is an M&P 45 (which I recently botched up the trigger on and had to send it back to the factory, but that's another story). I picked that one over the XD, which is the other gun I looked at real hard, because it has a real low bore axis like the Glock, and it has adjustable grips making it fit my hand better than the other two. If the Taurus, or a Ruger, or some other brand is what works for you, by all means have at it. Just make sure that whatever you pick is a reliable platform and that you can shoot it reasonably well.

The Annoyed Man wrote:
And yes, if I dropped my Kimber, I would scream like a little girl. My son actually did drop my wife's G19 at the DPC range one day. It was empty with no magazine in it, and it landed slide down on some coarse gravel. My wife's back was turned at the time. He looked at me, I looked at him, and we both started chuckling. He picked it up and it didn't even make a mark on it. My wife turned around to ask us what was so funny. "Oh, nothing dear."

Now this is my idea of a family outing.