TexasCHLforum.com

I have an odd question about when to present your CHL ID when asked by an "LEO" for some ID. Must the LEO be performing "peace keeping" duties? Here's why I'm asking.

My company is currently talking with all of the State Agencies in Austin, one or more each day. I have meetings with the Agencies in their buildings, and when I enter, I have to sign in with the security desk (And for the record, my Kel-Tec is safely locked in the trunk while I'm at these meetings. ). Only one Agency so far has asked for ID, but the person behind the counter was an employee of a security company, clearly not an LEO, so he only got my DL.

But at one agency I visited, the person behind the desk was wearing a DPS uniform. Fortunately, he did not ask for ID, but if he had, am I required to produce the CHL? The reason I'm asking is that I don't want my co-workers to know that I carry, and producing the CHL will probably start a conversation I don't want to have.

So, is the requirement to produce the CHL ID to all LEOs, no matter what function they are performing? Or are there exceptions?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ryan

There's an obvious exception in your specific case:

GC §411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a license
holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person
when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder
display identification, the license holder shall display both the license
holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the
department and the license holder's handgun license.

- Jim

Jim gave the right answer. Plus, this is very different from a traffic stop -- they're not going to be running your DL, so the fact that you have a CHL won't even come up.

If you're approached in a traffic stop while unarmed, it's polite to offer your CHL, even though it's not required, because the officer is going to come back wanting to know whether you're armed. That just doesn't apply in this case.

Kevin

KBCraig wrote:If you're approached in a traffic stop while unarmed, it's polite to offer your CHL, even though it's not required, because the officer is going to come back wanting to know whether you're armed. That just doesn't apply in this case.

AHH, that's where I was confused, I thought it was REQUIRED at all times, even if I am unarmed. But it is only required if I am "armed"?

Thanks Jim and Kevin for the clarification.

Ryan

AggieMM wrote:But it is only required if I am "armed"?

Yep, but it is always a good idea to be upfront about your CHL IF they are going to run your DL. Cause the CHL will come up when they run the DL.

Paladin wrote:

AggieMM wrote:But it is only required if I am "armed"?

Yep, but it is always a good idea to be upfront about your CHL IF they are going to run your DL. Cause the CHL will come up when they run the DL.

If you are not carrying it does not matter.

txinvestigator wrote:If you are not carrying it does not matter.

It's not required. But it can certainly matter, because it can affect the officer's attitude.

KBCraig wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:If you are not carrying it does not matter.

It's not required. But it can certainly matter, because it can affect the officer's attitude.

So can your cologne. Whats your point? If you are not carrying he will ask you if you are armed if runs your DL. You politely answer no, and thats it.

If you are hoping that he will cut you some slack or not give you a ticket because you HAVE a chl, then by all means, show it.

KBCraig wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:If you are not carrying it does not matter.

It's not required. But it can certainly matter, because it can affect the officer's attitude.

+1

My CHL instructor had first hand experience with it. He was stopped, didn't have his carry gun, gave out is license, The LEO ran it, got a surprise, and the LEO was rather nervous and upset when he got back to the car.

In fact the LEO recommended my instructor to disclose the info (one way or another) during a traffic stop.

I thought the whole thing through and I 100% agree with my instructor(a former LEO) and the LEO doing the traffic stop.

That only applies inside Texas though. Outside Texas is a whole nother ballgame.

Paladin wrote:

KBCraig wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:If you are not carrying it does not matter.

It's not required. But it can certainly matter, because it can affect the officer's attitude.

+1

My CHL instructor had first hand experience with it. He was stopped, didn't have his carry gun, gave out is license, The LEO ran it, got a surprise, and the LEO was rather nervous and upset when he got back to the car.

In fact the LEO recommended my instructor to disclose the info (one way or another) during a traffic stop.

I thought the whole thing through and I 100% agree with my instructor(a former LEO) and the LEO doing the traffic stop.

That only applies inside Texas though. Outside Texas is a whole nother ballgame.

Thats silly. What does "nervous and upset" mean? The officer was "upset " because the violator did not do something he is not required to do AT ALL?

Perhaps I just don't approach LE with the mystique as others, but cops are just people with a difficult job. I follow the law and don't worry about it. In fact, I had a LEO threaten me with jail because I did not show my CHL when I was not required to. I simply apologized, then called his supervisor and got it corrected.

Everybody has a story. I just think some of them are embellished to support a way of thinking that is not backed by law.

txinvestigator wrote:Everybody has a story. I just think some of them are embellished to support a way of thinking that is not backed by law.

As a former LEO, I concur.

Just to make sure everybody reads this part:

txinvestigator wrote:I had a LEO threaten me with jail because I did not show my CHL when I was not required to.

I'm not saying that you're legally wrong txi, just that I don't recommend your way of handling the situation.

But see its kinda funny, as I rarely, almost never "not" have it on me...

So its easy for me...

"Yes sir, here's my "licences" and proof of registration, insurance."

You'll find out that getting stopped by HPD, you will never, ever talk your way out of a citation...ever...Once they pull you over the citation is halfway finished...They can't stop because it is an electronically filed citation...Once they start, they can't stop or erase the entry...

How convienient...

I reside myself to the fact that it is my fault, and that I deserve the citation...

That way I have a most excellent outward attitude (inside I'm boiling! hehehe) and everyone goes home that day...

I think it is easier to just present both ID's whether you're armed or not...

stevie_d_64 wrote: I think it is easier to just present both ID's whether you're armed or not...

Confrontation avoided before it even begins by showing first.

One can be right about a thousand things, but what will a thousand arguments prove other than they like to argue?

Showing a little respect works both ways, being confrontational puts the situation off on, at best, a slippery ledge. One in which you're going to finally get pushed too far or you will push too far.

Is life worth that? Isn't that what you're taught in the CHL class: "To avoid confrontations"?

So why start one over such a petty area? So you're right... you're not carrying so why show... SO?

The LEO when he goes back to his vehicle and types in your DL and it pops up CHL and he comes back and ask's you where your weapon is. He might just have suspicion that you are hiding something from him... and we're supposed to be the good guys and we're hiding something from him ... maybe! It just puts the encounter off on the wrong foot.

TXI, as a former LEO, would you not rather have someone be totally honest to you to begin with? Being honest and open--to a LEO--is the only way to be in my humble opinion. It's called cooperation.

Texas DPS page on proper conduct during traffic stops. wrote: this is at: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... l/stop.htm

Traveling on Texas Roadways with Concealed Handguns

Traffic stop policies vary among law enforcement agencies. Your local police department or sheriff's office can tell you what to expect if stopped while carrying a handgun within their jurisdictions.

Texas Department of Public Safety troopers will ask you:

Whether you are licensed to carry a concealed handgun
Whether you have the gun with you
Where the gun is located
A trooper may disarm a licensee anytime he or she feels that safety is at risk. The trooper will return the gun at the end of the traffic stop when the threat to safety has passed.

When stopped by a law enforcement officer, DPS recommends that you:

Keep your hands in plain sight
Cooperate fully with the police officer
If you have a gun with you, tell the officer as soon as possible
Don't make any quick movements, especially toward the weapon
At night, turn on your vehicle's dome light

Why make it an issue?

Rich