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I guess there is a blurred and fuzzy line dealing with printing. Is printing the same as Failure To Conceal? If unlawful, Is there a defense to the charge?

I don't remember that being discussed in the CHL classes.

Thanks,

salty

Printing is not illegal - however I do try to prevent that as much as possible (see Handdogs post - someone else will be able to give you the link, i dont have it handy)
Failure to conceal is actually "intentional failure to conceal"

I worry about the same thing because I carry OWB. Our CHL instructor sorta told us that the law was written intentionally vague so you could defend it. My solution has been darker colored Hawaiian shirts in the summer. No problem anyway in the winter.

IMO a bulge is not printing. A gun shaped bulge is printing.

I don't worry much about printing unless there's a cop standing behind me at the convenience store.
Even then it's comforting to know that I'm within my rights and the law to be armed.

To answer the original question..Printing is not the same as Failure to Conceal. IMO

Teamless wrote:Printing is not illegal - however I do try to prevent that as much as possible (see Handdogs post - someone else will be able to give you the link, i dont have it handy)
Failure to conceal is actually "intentional failure to conceal"

Yes, I think "saltydog" needs to discuss this with "handog". But do so VERY gingerly - I'm sure handog is still very miffed about the whole thing

edited to add link ... http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... it=+cuffed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I posted this quote below in another thread. I don't think the law on "printing" is clear at all because of the interpretation of the word "openly" is debatable to me. This is just my opinion, and others may surely disagree. Only you can decide."

G26ster wrote:
Sec. 411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

I would hope that "openly" means not covered by clothing under the law. But, if it means, "Completely obvious; blatant" then a gun thrown in a pocket of tight pants, where the outline of the gun is obvious to a "reasonable person," who knows what a DA might do?

"Openly" means out in the open. Not covered up by something.

Where is the "beating a dead horse" smiley?

bdickens wrote:"Openly" means out in the open. Not covered up by something.

Where is the "beating a dead horse" smiley?

under the smileys on right, click "view more smilies"

saltydog wrote:I guess there is a blurred and fuzzy line dealing with printing. Is printing the same as Failure To Conceal? If unlawful, Is there a defense to the charge?

I don't remember that being discussed in the CHL classes.

Thanks,

salty

This thread is pouring salt on a wound Saltydog.

Printing is not the same as Intentional failure to conceal. Printing is not illegal however if you the printing is bad enough that your gun is discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person you are at risk or being arrested. If someone identifies your gun, even with printing and they run out the door in fear for their life you could be charged with disturbing the peace. If the LEO really wants to stick it to you he may throw in an intentional failure to conceal charge. It won’t stick but you will still go for a ride.

That'd be an expensive ride and Hotel bill. Bail Bondsman, Defense Attorney, towing/storage fee, and having the arrest expunged from your history could get costly.

Thanks for the comments.

salty

This is posted on the DPS site under FAQs:
Sounds like the first one deals with printing. If the presence of the gun is discernible as a gun under your clothes by just ordinary observation, its a problem.

Q. What does concealed mean? Can I carry my handgun in plain view?

A. No. The weapon can't be visible, and its presence can't be discernible through ordinary observation.

Q. What happens if I am caught carrying my handgun in plain view? Or what happens if my handgun is visible?

A. If a concealed handgun licensee is caught carrying a handgun in plain view or if his/her handgun is visible then he/she is subject to criminal charges. Specifically, he/she would be subject to prosecution for the Class A misdemeanor, Unlawfully Carrying of a Concealed Weapon by a License Holder, Sect. 46.035(a), Penal Code.

TexasGal wrote: A. If a concealed handgun licensee is caught carrying a handgun in plain view or if his/her handgun is visible then he/she is subject to criminal charges. Specifically, he/she would be subject to prosecution for the Class A misdemeanor, Unlawfully Carrying of a Concealed Weapon by a License Holder, Sect. 46.035(a), Penal Code.

That's, interesting...

How can you be "Unlawfully Carrying of a Concealed Weapon", when you have a license to carry a concealed handgun?

46.035(a), which is actually "Unlawful carrying of a handgun by license holder" (not "concealed" handgun), states: "A license holder commits an offense if ... intentionally fails to conceal the handgun." I would contend that if the handgun was detected via "printing", that would not be "intentionally" failing to conceal. In fact, I would contend that it would not be a violation if you were to forget to put on your jacket when exiting the car, and unintentionally open carried. (Though it might be tough to prove.)

If your gun is out in the open and visible (not covered) that's not printing. That's open carry.

Maybe not intentional OC but OC nonetheless. Good or bad, OC is not a priority to many people.

bayouhazard wrote:If your gun is out in the open and visible (not covered) that's not printing. That's open carry.

Maybe not intentional OC but OC nonetheless. Good or bad, OC is not a priority to many people.

I didn't say anything about priorities. Nor was I trying to hijack the thread to OC issues.

A gun can be "out in the open" when the wind blows your shirt back. That's unintentional exposure. As would be stepping out of your car while forgetting the cover garment. My interpretation of: "A license holder commits an offense if ... (he) intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.", is that neither of those situations is a crime, because neither was intentional. Though, as I said, it may be more problematic with the second issue, than the first.