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In the Fort Meyers, Florida, area yesterday, an 18-year-old male allegedly shot and killed his 15-year-old girlfriend with one shot from a .22-caliber rifle. He claimed it was an accident. He has been charged with manslaughter.

http://www.news-press.com/article/20100 ... f-girl--15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



- Jim

1. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
2. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
3. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
4. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
5. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded

chefkristian wrote:1. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
2. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
3. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
4. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
5. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded

I agree but I am having a very difficult time believing the story. In my mind it would take a lot of things to go just right for this to be an accident. I know, I know, I know crazy things happen everyday but this one just seems "not right". At least not to me.

18. 15. One shot in exactly the right place. And the chap is so good-looking that the ladies must be just swooning over him.

- Jim

Bad situation that could have been avoided in many ways.

1. the 4 rules
2. 18 yr old w/ a 15 yr old
3. In the bedroom
4. Should have been in school?
5. the 4 rules

No witnesses, either. That was convenient.

- Jim

The big thing that comes to mind, as I read the article describing this tragedy, is why did the parents have a loaded gun available to kids (teens in particular)? I was lucky as I grew up with a father who taught me (and our whole family) gun safety as soon as we were old enough to understand that dad was hunting and that he used guns to kill the game we enjoyed at dinner. As there was no perceived need for defense in the 50's, all the guns in our home were always locked up. I bet the parents feel awful ... prayers for them.

Age 18 is an adult that can walk into a gun store and buy a rifle. If the spawn can't handle adult responsibility by that age, the parents aren't going to be able to enforce it with locks and keys.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the parents were asleep at the switch anyway. If I had picked up a 15-year-old girlfriend when I was 18 (already graduated from high school in my case), my father would have slapped me silly and hauled me to a shrink if I kept it up.

- Jim

XtremeDuty.45 wrote:I agree but I am having a very difficult time believing the story. In my mind it would take a lot of things to go just right for this to be an accident. I know, I know, I know crazy things happen everyday but this one just seems "not right". At least not to me.

I agree but I have an easier time believing someone accidentally shot and killed someone else than believing they accidentally shot and killed themself, especially with a rifle or shotgun. viewtopic.php?f=83&t=37635" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hangfour wrote:The big thing that comes to mind, as I read the article describing this tragedy, is why did the parents have a loaded gun available to kids (teens in particular)? I was lucky as I grew up with a father who taught me (and our whole family) gun safety as soon as we were old enough to understand that dad was hunting and that he used guns to kill the game we enjoyed at dinner. As there was no perceived need for defense in the 50's, all the guns in our home were always locked up. I bet the parents feel awful ... prayers for them.

The 50's were then and this is now. Age 18 is old enough to vote and serve in the military and....to know better. In some cases, by age 20 or certainly age 30, many know pretty much everything. It's only at around age 40 that terminal dumbness starts to slip in.

The 50's were then and this is now. Age 18 is old enough to vote and serve in the military and....to know better. In some cases, by age 20 or certainly age 30, many know pretty much everything. It's only at around age 40 that terminal dumbness starts to slip in.

Well said!

Oldgringo wrote:

hangfour wrote:The big thing that comes to mind, as I read the article describing this tragedy, is why did the parents have a loaded gun available to kids (teens in particular)? I was lucky as I grew up with a father who taught me (and our whole family) gun safety as soon as we were old enough to understand that dad was hunting and that he used guns to kill the game we enjoyed at dinner. As there was no perceived need for defense in the 50's, all the guns in our home were always locked up. I bet the parents feel awful ... prayers for them.

The 50's were then and this is now. Age 18 is old enough to vote and serve in the military and....to know better. In some cases, by age 20 or certainly age 30, many know pretty much everything. It's only at around age 40 that terminal dumbness starts to slip in.

I read a fascinating study which showed that the age of puberty is starting earlier and lasting significantly longer now than it did even 2 generations ago.

They said that they took MRIs of teen and young adult brains, among many other things, and saw organic and substantial differences in the level of brain growth and development in youth today compared to those of the same age from even just a couple generations ago. Their bodies are starting to become adults around age 9-11 now while their brains don't catch up until 24, on average.

There are lots of speculations over what the cause of this might be. Permissive parenting, chemicals in the water and food supplies, cultural expectations, the rigors of education, and any other number of things are being looked at as possible explanations.

This is not said to excuse an 18yo dating a 15yo as the maturity level and life experiences between those ages is still a huge gulf. I'm just pointing out that the 18 year old of today isn't necessarily comparable in abilities to the 18yo of his grandparents' generation.

Hoi Polloi, puberty is a brief phase of becoming physically capable of reproduction. It takes about two minutes in the case of males and maybe a couple of months in the case of females. It has indeed gone down to the 9-year-old range in both sexes in societies where children are reasonably well fed and have good medical care.

Judgment and knowledge obviously have nothing to do with the physical development.

Adolescence is an invented (IMHO) period of irresponsibility that is becoming increasingly extended into the 20s. Maybe it's over 30 now.

Nobody has brain scans from before about 1970. All we have from before that date are hollow skulls and brains in jars of formaldehyde.

There was a time when teenagers were considered adults according to most standards aside from owning real estate and voting.

- Jim

HoI Polloi,

In two words, "responsibility" and "accountability".

In the 50's and before, people (young and old) were expected to be responsible for their behavior and/or actions and they were held accountable for the results of that behavior and those actions.

Nowadays, it seems that eveything unpleasant is the fault of someone or something else; kinda' like the study you related.

XtremeDuty.45 wrote:

chefkristian wrote:1. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
2. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
3. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
4. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded
5. Did not treat the rifle as if it were loaded

I agree but I am having a very difficult time believing the story. In my mind it would take a lot of things to go just right for this to be an accident. I know, I know, I know crazy things happen everyday but this one just seems "not right". At least not to me.

I'm with XtremeDuty.45 on this.

From the bare bones information available, it's not inconsistent with cases where someone points a gun at someone when he / she thinks is unloaded because the magazine is empty, pulls the trigger, and discharges the round in the chamber. There are at least two more factors that would have to just coincidentally come together to result in an unintentional death otherwise:

1. Alignment of the barrel with the victim's head
2. Accidental activation of the trigger.

I wouldn't buy the unintentional part of pointing and trigger pulling without a lot more investigative input.