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http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0929/ ... US-streets

Sub-heading from the article: As an antiterror measure, the US government has deployed mobile X-ray technology to randomly scan cars and trucks.

So, when they x-ray you and see that you're carrying a gun, or have guns in your car, what are they going to do? Assume your weapons are possessed legally, or pull you over, guns drawn?

Unless you are at a checkpoint and sitting still for the image, the quality of the image is going to be so minimal that they are not going to easily pick out a handgun strapped to your hip. They are more interested in large amounts of drugs, explosives or other contraband.

I saw this too. Although it’s legal to carry weapons in your vehicle in Texas I’m guessing if you had cases of AK’s in your vehicle then you might be stopped at gun point.

Z Backscatter Vans as stated in that linked article…have been in use overseas for several years now. I worked with them on our patrol base and joint bases as well as working with the Iraqi units that had them on loan. The type of situation and use, trained crew required to detect a single weapon not something you need to be concerned with. We also use them for CONUS on base security.. scanning commercial trucks as they enter….in a static, dedicated secondary search protocol they work well…

So like that truck in the article shown with a drug stash,, Great use,,, Pulled over or otherwise suspected with PC.. Like a drug dog team brought in to verify a suspicion,, so could a Z Backscatter Van be called in… I’m all for that.

Setting one up on a road intersection, bridge entrance? Not going to see it happen if the leadership listens to the experienced operators.

Keith B wrote:Unless you are at a checkpoint and sitting still for the image, the quality of the image is going to be so minimal that they are not going to easily pick out a handgun strapped to your hip. They are more interested in large amounts of drugs, explosives or other contraband.

Are you guessing or is your response based on knowledge of the system? I don't know anything about the system but I don't see why it isn't theoretically possible to take an image in say 1/1000 or 1/4000 of a second. My camera can do that. That should provide plenty of sharpness. Also, if I'm going 70 MPH down the highway and a van pulls alongside in the adjacent lane, I am effectively "sitting still."

But does that really matter? That doesn't change what happens, just where it happens. The article cites this being used at a checkpoint on I-20. When I visit family in the Valley I have to return through a Border Patrol checkpoint. If they start using this technology am I going to be detained and searched at gunpoint or are they going to find so many people with guns that it is impractical to check them all out? I somehow doubt the BP is just going to ignore an X-ray image of guns in your vehicle.

VMI77 wrote:Are you guessing or is your response based on knowledge of the system?

Im not guessing

bronco78 wrote:
So like that truck in the article shown with a drug stash,, Great use,,, Pulled over or otherwise suspected with PC.. Like a drug dog team brought in to verify a suspicion,, so could a Z Backscatter Van be called in… I’m all for that.

It said in the article that these scans were being done randomly, ie without PC. Clearly this is a search and searching without any sort of probable cause or a warrant is highly troubling from a civil liberties perspective.

txmatt wrote:

bronco78 wrote:
So like that truck in the article shown with a drug stash,, Great use,,, Pulled over or otherwise suspected with PC.. Like a drug dog team brought in to verify a suspicion,, so could a Z Backscatter Van be called in… I’m all for that.

It said in the article that these scans were being done randomly, ie without PC. Clearly this is a search and searching without any sort of probable cause or a warrant is highly troubling from a civil liberties perspective.

Excellent point.

txmatt wrote:

bronco78 wrote:
So like that truck in the article shown with a drug stash,, Great use,,, Pulled over or otherwise suspected with PC.. Like a drug dog team brought in to verify a suspicion,, so could a Z Backscatter Van be called in… I’m all for that.

It said in the article that these scans were being done randomly, ie without PC. Clearly this is a search and searching without any sort of probable cause or a warrant is highly troubling from a civil liberties perspective.

A separate issue I was not commenting on.

bronco78 wrote:Z Backscatter Vans as stated in that linked article…have been in use overseas for several years now. I worked with them on our patrol base and joint bases as well as working with the Iraqi units that had them on loan. The type of situation and use, trained crew required to detect a single weapon not something you need to be concerned with. We also use them for CONUS on base security.. scanning commercial trucks as they enter….in a static, dedicated secondary search protocol they work well…

So like that truck in the article shown with a drug stash,, Great use,,, Pulled over or otherwise suspected with PC.. Like a drug dog team brought in to verify a suspicion,, so could a Z Backscatter Van be called in… I’m all for that.

Setting one up on a road intersection, bridge entrance? Not going to see it happen if the leadership listens to the experienced operators.

Seems like something that could be set up at a Border Patrol checkpoint, both legally and practically. I have to pass through a BP checkpoint every time I visit family in the Valley. It's not a problem now, but if they x-ray my car and see a gun, or more than one, I just have a hard time imagining they're going to wave me on.

VMI77 wrote:

bronco78 wrote:Z Backscatter Vans as stated in that linked article…have been in use overseas for several years now. I worked with them on our patrol base and joint bases as well as working with the Iraqi units that had them on loan. The type of situation and use, trained crew required to detect a single weapon not something you need to be concerned with. We also use them for CONUS on base security.. scanning commercial trucks as they enter….in a static, dedicated secondary search protocol they work well…

So like that truck in the article shown with a drug stash,, Great use,,, Pulled over or otherwise suspected with PC.. Like a drug dog team brought in to verify a suspicion,, so could a Z Backscatter Van be called in… I’m all for that.

Setting one up on a road intersection, bridge entrance? Not going to see it happen if the leadership listens to the experienced operators.

Seems like something that could be set up at a Border Patrol checkpoint, both legally and practically. I have to pass through a BP checkpoint every time I visit family in the Valley. It's not a problem now, but if they x-ray my car and see a gun, or more than one, I just have a hard time imagining they're going to wave me on.

I think it would depend on what they are looking for, what the protocol is.
i doubt it is individual guns.. or even 2 or 3. Now you are scanned and seen to have a truck bed of AK's, sure you’re going to get asked what gun show or FFL dealer you on your way to.

bronco78 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

bronco78 wrote:Z Backscatter Vans as stated in that linked article…have been in use overseas for several years now. I worked with them on our patrol base and joint bases as well as working with the Iraqi units that had them on loan. The type of situation and use, trained crew required to detect a single weapon not something you need to be concerned with. We also use them for CONUS on base security.. scanning commercial trucks as they enter….in a static, dedicated secondary search protocol they work well…

So like that truck in the article shown with a drug stash,, Great use,,, Pulled over or otherwise suspected with PC.. Like a drug dog team brought in to verify a suspicion,, so could a Z Backscatter Van be called in… I’m all for that.

Setting one up on a road intersection, bridge entrance? Not going to see it happen if the leadership listens to the experienced operators.

Seems like something that could be set up at a Border Patrol checkpoint, both legally and practically. I have to pass through a BP checkpoint every time I visit family in the Valley. It's not a problem now, but if they x-ray my car and see a gun, or more than one, I just have a hard time imagining they're going to wave me on.

I think it would depend on what they are looking for, what the protocol is.
i doubt it is individual guns.. or even 2 or 3. Now you are scanned and seen to have a truck bed of AK's, sure you’re going to get asked what gun show or FFL dealer you on your way to.

When you refer to the protocol are you talking about physical limitations of the scan --in other words, to see individual guns they'd have to set up or use the device in a particular way, and so wouldn't see a single gun; or are you describing a situation where they'd see the individual weapon, but ignore it by procedure because that's not what is being targeted?

In the latter case I have a hard time seeing how it will be politically possible for the feds to ignore someone with a weapon. If they don't check everyone they have identified with a weapon to determine if it is legal, then they risk the blow back of someone, like a convicted felon, passing through their checkpoint with a weapon and then using it to shoot someone on down the road.

bronco78 is addressing the issue mo' better than me, but my response was based on a knowledge of the system.

VMI77 wrote:

bronco78 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

bronco78 wrote:Z Backscatter Vans as stated in that linked article…have been in use overseas for several years now. I worked with them on our patrol base and joint bases as well as working with the Iraqi units that had them on loan. The type of situation and use, trained crew required to detect a single weapon not something you need to be concerned with. We also use them for CONUS on base security.. scanning commercial trucks as they enter….in a static, dedicated secondary search protocol they work well…

So like that truck in the article shown with a drug stash,, Great use,,, Pulled over or otherwise suspected with PC.. Like a drug dog team brought in to verify a suspicion,, so could a Z Backscatter Van be called in… I’m all for that.

Setting one up on a road intersection, bridge entrance? Not going to see it happen if the leadership listens to the experienced operators.

Seems like something that could be set up at a Border Patrol checkpoint, both legally and practically. I have to pass through a BP checkpoint every time I visit family in the Valley. It's not a problem now, but if they x-ray my car and see a gun, or more than one, I just have a hard time imagining they're going to wave me on.

I think it would depend on what they are looking for, what the protocol is.
i doubt it is individual guns.. or even 2 or 3. Now you are scanned and seen to have a truck bed of AK's, sure you’re going to get asked what gun show or FFL dealer you on your way to.

When you refer to the protocol are you talking about physical limitations of the scan --in other words, to see individual guns they'd have to set up or use the device in a particular way, and so wouldn't see a single gun; or are you describing a situation where they'd see the individual weapon, but ignore it by procedure because that's not what is being targeted?

I used “protocol” in two different ways.
One: protocol, how the scanner is set up and used.
Two: protocol, what they(whoever they are) is being directed to look for, and once “something” is found, what to do about it…. The procedure, (protocol)

bronco78 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

bronco78 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

bronco78 wrote:Z Backscatter Vans as stated in that linked article…have been in use overseas for several years now. I worked with them on our patrol base and joint bases as well as working with the Iraqi units that had them on loan. The type of situation and use, trained crew required to detect a single weapon not something you need to be concerned with. We also use them for CONUS on base security.. scanning commercial trucks as they enter….in a static, dedicated secondary search protocol they work well…

So like that truck in the article shown with a drug stash,, Great use,,, Pulled over or otherwise suspected with PC.. Like a drug dog team brought in to verify a suspicion,, so could a Z Backscatter Van be called in… I’m all for that.

Setting one up on a road intersection, bridge entrance? Not going to see it happen if the leadership listens to the experienced operators.

Seems like something that could be set up at a Border Patrol checkpoint, both legally and practically. I have to pass through a BP checkpoint every time I visit family in the Valley. It's not a problem now, but if they x-ray my car and see a gun, or more than one, I just have a hard time imagining they're going to wave me on.

I think it would depend on what they are looking for, what the protocol is.
i doubt it is individual guns.. or even 2 or 3. Now you are scanned and seen to have a truck bed of AK's, sure you’re going to get asked what gun show or FFL dealer you on your way to.

When you refer to the protocol are you talking about physical limitations of the scan --in other words, to see individual guns they'd have to set up or use the device in a particular way, and so wouldn't see a single gun; or are you describing a situation where they'd see the individual weapon, but ignore it by procedure because that's not what is being targeted?

I used “protocol” in two different ways.
One: protocol, how the scanner is set up and used.
Two: protocol, what they(whoever they are) is being directed to look for, and once “something” is found, what to do about it…. The procedure, (protocol)

The first is more reassuring than the second.