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On Monday night my roommate and his brother and I were talking on our apartment balcony at about 1 am. We were sitting there and we heard a noise coming from the the field that faces our apartment. Right outside the apartment building is a parking lot with an approx. 50' field followed by a fence that separates the complex from a wooded park next door. We looked over and saw two individuals prying fence boards off of the fence. Knowing they were up to no good, we shouted to them asking what they were doing. They just replied "nothing." At that, they put the two planks they pried off and set them back into their positions and walked across the field. We watched them the whole time. They walked to a silver sedan that was backed into a parking spot with the trunk open. One individual got in the car and started it up and turned the headlights on while the other went to the back and started fumbling around in the trunk. We were still watching and he pulled out an object and I really did not see what it was. He then walked a little bit back into the field maybe 10' from his car or less and we heard a familiar noise. It sounded like he cocked a gun, but we werent sure. A few seconds later, it was confirmed a gun. He fired a single shot. It surprised the heck out of me. I saw muzzle flash and to me it looked like he was shooting the fence line. After that he put the gun back into his trunk and they took off. We called the police immediatly and they came within about 10 minutes. We described the situation to the officer, but he really didnt seem to care too much so while we were down there we looked with our camera flashes ( Thanks Blackberry for making a really great flash) and we found a single shotgun shell in the grass. We were met by another resident who was walking his dog when the shot was fired. He claimed he saw the man shoot at the building. I nor my friends saw anything hit or hear anything hit the building. My question is, is say the man HAD shot at us, would we be justified in shooting back? I was armed at the time with my Glock on my side. I really didnt even think to pull my gun when the shot when off. I was startled by the gunshot, but I really never got worried or even thought that he had shot at me. I was just thinking " holy cow that man just shot a gun, call the cops!"

There should never been a second's doubt in your mind that when someone shoots a gun at you you are justified in shooting back.

My question is, is say the man HAD shot at us, would we be justified in shooting back?

Deadly force may be used to stop the immediate threat of great bodily harm or death.

As a reasonable person with the information you provided, if the individual had fired at you, I would view his actions as intentionally hostile and threatening, and not accidental. I believe that you would have been at risk of sustaining great bodily harm or death, and would view the use of deadly force appropriate to stop the threat.

E150GT wrote:On Monday night my roommate and his brother and I were talking on our apartment balcony at about 1 am. We were sitting there and we heard a noise coming from the the field that faces our apartment. Right outside the apartment building is a parking lot with an approx. 50' field followed by a fence that separates the complex from a wooded park next door. We looked over and saw two individuals prying fence boards off of the fence. Knowing they were up to no good, we shouted to them asking what they were doing. They just replied "nothing." At that, they put the two planks they pried off and set them back into their positions and walked across the field. We watched them the whole time. They walked to a silver sedan that was backed into a parking spot with the trunk open. One individual got in the car and started it up and turned the headlights on while the other went to the back and started fumbling around in the trunk. We were still watching and he pulled out an object and I really did not see what it was. He then walked a little bit back into the field maybe 10' from his car or less and we heard a familiar noise. It sounded like he cocked a gun, but we werent sure. A few seconds later, it was confirmed a gun. He fired a single shot. It surprised the heck out of me. I saw muzzle flash and to me it looked like he was shooting the fence line. After that he put the gun back into his trunk and they took off. We called the police immediatly and they came within about 10 minutes. We described the situation to the officer, but he really didnt seem to care too much so while we were down there we looked with our camera flashes ( Thanks Blackberry for making a really great flash) and we found a single shotgun shell in the grass. We were met by another resident who was walking his dog when the shot was fired. He claimed he saw the man shoot at the building. I nor my friends saw anything hit or hear anything hit the building. My question is, is say the man HAD shot at us, would we be justified in shooting back? I was armed at the time with my Glock on my side. I really didnt even think to pull my gun when the shot when off. I was startled by the gunshot, but I really never got worried or even thought that he had shot at me. I was just thinking " holy cow that man just shot a gun, call the cops!"

You didn't feel threatened, so you didn't shoot. Fortunately it didn't result in you feeling simply surprised when you got hit by a shotgun round. If you were convinced that the guy was indeed shooting at you, you had the right to fight or flight. Your call.
My impression of the whole incident is that the guy was an idiot in the first place to do it in front of two witnesses that he had just had a conversation with.

Line of fire? Distance to target? Ability to duck/evade? Lighting?

I 100% agree in justified shooting back if being shot at, but my initial response in this case would have been to call the cops as they were pulling the boards and not shouting to alert them to my presence. Hindsight is alwasy 20/20, and second-guessing is something a lot of folks do. We learn from it.

These goons were obviously prepared to do major nastiness somewhere, and you alertness saved someone a lot of grief that night. Its unfortunate that this type of scum will just go on and do it somewhere else.

Ya' done good, podnuh!! No one got hurt!

lonewolf wrote:Line of fire? Distance to target? Ability to duck/evade? Lighting?

I 100% agree in justified shooting back if being shot at, but my initial response in this case would have been to call the cops as they were pulling the boards and not shouting to alert them to my presence. Hindsight is alwasy 20/20, and second-guessing is something a lot of folks do. We learn from it.

These goons were obviously prepared to do major nastiness somewhere, and you alertness saved someone a lot of grief that night. Its unfortunate that this type of scum will just go on and do it somewhere else.

Ya' done good, podnuh!! No one got hurt!

Let the cops handle the criminal mischief at night complaint about the fence, before it escalates.

lonewolf wrote:Line of fire? Distance to target? Ability to duck/evade? Lighting?

I used google maps to estimate he was about 110' from me with a clear line of sight. There was cover for me but not so much for him. This is the reason I ask because I could have easily ran inside the apartment. Now, he now knows where I live and any attempt to escape could put me directly into his path had he decided not to flee and try to shut me up. Now I am more than certain that had he attempted to come to me I could defend myself justifiably, but I wasnt so sure about it from the distance stated.

Have you any speculation as to what their ultimate goal was...?

Abraham wrote:Have you any speculation as to what their ultimate goal was...?

I think car theft or items from cars

I am betting it was a gated apartment community. They wanted to pry open the fence, enter and do harm to someone that they knew. This is all speculation based on the OP's description.
The BG's are also extremely stupid.

I think I can answer the question of whether the shot was fired at you or not.

If you can remember, was the muzzle flash you saw round or oval in shape?

E150GT wrote:I used google maps to estimate he was about 110' from me with a clear line of sight. There was cover for me but not so much for him. This is the reason I ask because I could have easily ran inside the apartment. Now, he now knows where I live and any attempt to escape could put me directly into his path had he decided not to flee and try to shut me up. Now I am more than certain that had he attempted to come to me I could defend myself justifiably, but I wasnt so sure about it from the distance stated.

110' or 110 yards? 110 feet is pretty close for a shotgun blast, 110 yards is outside the effective range of a shotgun and your Glock.

If 110 feet, then it would have been feasible to return fire. If 110 yards you'd have just been throwing lead downrange with no reasonable expectation of hitting your target.

Excaliber wrote:I think I can answer the question of whether the shot was fired at you or not.

If you can remember, was the muzzle flash you saw round or oval in shape?

oval

You said approx 110', let round it up to call it 40 yards, and let's also assume he wasn't shooting slugs.

Now, I don't want to be in a gunfight if I can avoid doing so. But if that day ever came, I think I'd like the odds of me with my handgun versus a shotgun shooting pellets at 40 yards. I regularly practice with my pistol at 50 yards and I know I can make consistent hits. I've also shot at geese and ducks at 40 yards and know I get better pellet patterns at 30 yards. . . .

Now, Ohio is one of those states that doesn't allow deer hunting with a rifle. So if I was shooting saboted slugs with my shotgun w/ red dot scope, then all bets are off. I'd take the shotgun over the handgun at distance.

E150GT wrote:oval

Then it wasn't aimed at you.

E150GT wrote:

Excaliber wrote:I think I can answer the question of whether the shot was fired at you or not.

If you can remember, was the muzzle flash you saw round or oval in shape?

oval

Muzzle flash seen from directly in front (or the rear) usually appears generally circular. If the shape is other than circular (e.g., star shaped) the petals of the star will be pretty much symmetrical.

An oval muzzle flash is seen when the observer is at some angle to the side of the line of fire.

You can get an idea of how this works from checking out the muzzle flash pictures here.

From your observation, it would appear that the shooter fired at something other than you. This is confirmed by the fact that you weren't struck by a projectile and didn't notice a nearby projectile impact, although you were well within range of even a light birdshot load.