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I can't post the pic because it's too large, but I came across a sign that I hadn't seen yet. It is at a place called Wine Styles @ Montomery Plaza in Fort Worth. My wife and I went there last year and ther was a hand written sign "no guns" so I ignored it because my wife really want to check it out. I was in the plaza today and decided to go see what they had now, and the sign reerenced no codes at all and the only offical looking part was what looks like a reproduction of the state seal about the size of a quarter in the top corners, it is in English and Spanish with letter at least 1" high on a contrasting background. I know it's not legit or legally recognized I was just wondering if anyone has seen the verbage before and where it might come from, just curious.

"The licensed or unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $10,000"

that sounds like a 51% sign, its legal if so.
Its a TABC sign, and denotes that the venue earns 51% or more of its revenue from onsite sales and consumption of alcohol.
it normally is a red bordered sign, with a 51% across diagonally of the sign.

RAM4171 wrote:"The licensed or unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $10,000"

Did the sign have a big red 51% on it?

Nope no red 51. They do sell mostly only wine and have taste testing but I seriously doubt that 51 percent is for on site consumption. Should I call TABC?

Any chance they copied the sign and the copy machine didn't pick up the red lettering? It seems to, otherwise, be a 51% sign.

If they retail alcohol for offsite consumption they should have the TABC unlicensed sign



Anything else is likely in violation of TABC rules and a phone call to report the violation might be in order.

Teamless wrote:that sounds like a 51% sign, its legal if so.
Its a TABC sign, and denotes that the venue earns 51% or more of its revenue from onsite sales and consumption of alcohol.
it normally is a red bordered sign, with a 51% across diagonally of the sign.

I doubt that "Wine Styles @ Montgomery Plaza" really sells 51% of their business (if any) for on-premises consumption. It looks like a wine shop that sells bottles for taking home. In that case the 51% sign, while "legal" doesn't prohibit carry by a CHL, and also probably violates TABC rules that would specify the "Unlicensed Possession" sign.

ScottDLS wrote:I doubt that "Wine Styles @ Montgomery Plaza" really sells 51% of their business

I agree, however with this statement from the OP,

RAM4171 wrote:"The licensed or unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $10,000"

Thats about (if not actually) the full sign for 51%

Teamless wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:I doubt that "Wine Styles @ Montgomery Plaza" really sells 51% of their business

I agree, however with this statement from the OP,

RAM4171 wrote:"The licensed or unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $10,000"

Thats about (if not actually) the full sign for 51%

Right. But my point was the actual sales as determined/licensed by TABC controls whether carry is illegal, not the sign.

ScottDLS wrote:Right. But my point was the actual sales as determined/licensed by TABC controls whether carry is illegal, not the sign.

I agree with you there, but it wouldn't be the first time some person put the wrong sign up, without really knowing the laws.

TABC may have something to say about it, but I hear the fine is pretty hefty, so if someone wants to save the store some money, they may just want to quietly tell them to fix it, before TABC sees it wrong and fines them

This place?

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/PublicInquiry/Status.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

License #: BG645225
Trade Name: WINESTYLES WINE AND GIFTS MONTGOMERY PLAZA
Owner: FORT WORTH WINE SELLERS INC.
Location Address:
2600 W 7TH STREET #144
FORT WORTH , TX 76107
Mailing Address:
2916 HARLANWOOD DR
FORT WORTH , TX 76109
County: TARRANT Orig. Issue Date: 11/16/2006
Status: Current Exp. Date: 11/15/2011
Wine Percent: 17
Location Phone No.: 8173329463

Subordinates:
Related To:

http://www.winestyles.net/montgomeryplaza" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.winestylesstore.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--------------------------------------

You can fill in an anonymous complaint about improper signage here
http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/enforcement ... cation.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The TABC will visit and have them post the correct sign.

Teamless wrote: TABC may have something to say about it, but I hear the fine is pretty hefty, so if someone wants to save the store some money, they may just want to quietly tell them to fix it, before TABC sees it wrong and fines them

And if they post a Blue sign, as required, and a VALID 30.06 sign beside it after you educate them?
That's a TABC function, let the TABC educate them
They opened a business, they got the instruction book and signs, they should know the rules, otherwise they might need to be told they should check identification of minors buying wine. It's their business, they should be accountable for knowing the rules. ........ just my opinion.
I hope they read how much tax to collect and how often to pay it to the Secretary of State .......
My point is, it's their responsibility to know.
They appear to be in "big boy pants" it isn't a "mom n pop" store.

Pay careful attention to the posting from the TABC public inquiry section. It can be very educational.

When you use the inquiry system, if you ask for the retail licenses, there is a list of the codes and what they mean. The first two letters of the license number tell you what this license is. This store has a BG, which is a beer and wine ON Premise license. This means that they sell for people to drink on the premises, which makes sense for a wine tasting store.

As someone else pointed out, the problem is the law forbids you to carry if TABC determines the store is a 51% location, and this is regardless of how the store actually makes money. TABC has determined that this store sells for on premise consumption.

And here is the really tricky part. When the store applies to TABC, the application asks how much of their sales come from alcohol, how much from food, and how much from everything else. It does not split the alcohol sales by on premise or off premise. TABC makes their determination based on the questionnaire and the license type. So, if the wine store owners predicted that 51% of their income would be from alcohol, and TABC gave them an on-premise license, then the determination is that it is a 51% location.

And from what I have heard, I can almost guarantee that this is what happened in this case. I have talked with several agents who knew of locations like this and how they got rated that way. As far as I know, TABC is not planning on changing the application questions to split the on and off premise sales out, and I am not sure that many stores could actually tell you either. Most of the places that get BG type licenses are beer joints that sell very little to go stuff, so this is not as big a problem as it could be. Wine stores like this one are the exception to the rule and do create the problem, but they are rare enough (and CHL's are also rare enough) that TABC does not hear a large public outcry about it.

So, my guess is that this is a real 51% location and the sign might be an improper posting or an attempt to comply with TABC rules on signage. You might get TABC to make them put up a real 51% sign, with red 51 on it, but that would hurt anyone who might need the defense.

To me it makes no difference if the sign is "legal" or not, if they post their business they will not get any of my money. The intent is they do not want you there while armed, and are most likely ignorant of the specifics of the law. If you want to spend your money in a place like that feel free, I am not going to play the legally posted or not game, I will take my cash someplace else and it will make no difference if I am carrying or not......

Thanks for that Steve. I learned a few things from your post above.