TexasCHLforum.com

Kel-Tec has the ultimate of everything;

The ultimate rifle, RFB. Smaller than a folding stock rifle, but bullpup and ambidextrous with forward ejecting shells so your hunting buddy won't get a hot shell chucked at his head. Smaller than a .223 pea shooter but packs the wallop of a .308. Wow!

The ultimate shotgun, KSG. Smaller than a sawed off shotgun, but with a legal length barrel due to bullpup design. It has dual mag tube so you could be shooting doves with bird shot one second but if a BG approaches, you could hit a switch and shoot buckshot out of the other mag the next second. Wow!

The ultimate CCW, PF9 and P3AT. The thinnest and lightest guns in each of their respective calibers. Rohrbaugh is smaller than the PF9 but the Rohrbaugh is not rated for +P ammo, so it is not a real 9mm pistol. For CCW, thinness and lightness are crucial for concealability. 9mm and .380 are what most shooters think are the minimum calibers for self-defense. In other words, these are the most concealable handguns in serious self-defense calibers available on the market. I hate shooting the P3AT because of the extreme recoil due to the extreme light weight, but guess what? I carry that most because it is the most concealable. Unless you're a firearms enthusiast, most ordinary folks who have a CHL just want the minimum gun that is most concealable for self-defense. Kel-tec's handguns fill that role.

My favorite gun manufacturer was Glock, but it's now Kel-tec. Glock still makes great stuff, but no other manufacturer can claim to have the ultimate firearm in every category!

Oh, my Christmas list is growing and there's still 11 more months 'till Christmas!

I've seen way too many P3ATs come to pieces during range quals.

You get what you pay for IMO.

Don't forget the Sub-2000 line of foldable rifles in pistol calibres. My favorite pistol is my old S&W 5906 9MM. Kel-Tec makes a Sub-2000 which uses that mag, also common with their P-11. My bugout configuration is 5906 on my hip, P-11 on the wife's and the Sub in my backpack. My wife doesn't know that she's humping the ammo in her pack. I hid it under the toilet paper.

Napier wrote: My wife doesn't know that she's humping the ammo in her pack. I hid it under the toilet paper.

My p3at isnt "reliable" yet. I probably need to run another 200 rounds through it but i hate shooting it. With a little tweaking here and there, im sure it will function fine and become reliable.

I have a PF-9 in the safe, I do like my P-11, but I carry my Glock 26, holds more, and better sight options, internal laser available and choose a trigger.
20 round (17+3) "spare" mag, and when deep concealment needed, 13 round "regular" mag (10+3) +1 chambered

My P3AT and my P11 have proven to be 100% reliable with 100's of rounds fired thru both!

just bought a p3at....hope it doesnt do me wrong

newer p3at are fine. older ones had trouble. my only complaint is that the mag release button is easy for the thumb to hit and release the mag since the gun is so small, it is easy to do as space where you can lay your thumb is limited.

Kel-Tec = El Cheapo, not to say very poor quality, but middling at best.

I'm quite fond of my PF9. The fit and finish is ok at best, but it has been 100% reliable and it fits in my pocket with more firepower than a .380. For $275, what more could you want?

As for a glock and deep concealment, I just dont see it. they are entirely too bulky for "deep concealment", unless your daily attire is clown pants. I've thrown my XD40SC in the cargo pocket on my shorts/pants before, but I wouldnt want to carry it like that for more than a few minutes.

My KTs are reliable and have never been back to the factory even once or repaired even once. The main thing is that they are not as expensive and that helps those without money get reliable and small guns.

They also keep the prices of other makers like Glock down for fear of losing profits. We need companies like this to push innovation too. I want other makers to improve on what KT brings out. Otherwise we are all going to end up forced to pay whatever the major companies want to charge. I don't want to pay $700+ for a basic Glock. Over $500 is $200 to much in my opinion since Glock and like companies are doing little to push true innovation simply because it cuts into their profit share.

Abraham wrote:Kel-Tec = El Cheapo, not to say very poor quality, but middling at best.

Did you mean Kimber?

I own four Kel-Tecs. They all worked right out of the box. And ate everything I fed them, from the cheapest junk to the best domestic self-defense. A P3-AT is under my left armpit almost every day. Some might say that's where it belongs. But I trust it.

shootthesheet wrote:They also keep the prices of other makers like Glock down for fear of losing profits. We need companies like this to push innovation too. I want other makers to improve on what KT brings out. Otherwise we are all going to end up forced to pay whatever the major companies want to charge. I don't want to pay $700+ for a basic Glock. Over $500 is $200 to much in my opinion since Glock and like companies are doing little to push true innovation simply because it cuts into their profit share.

I am not here to bash Kel-Tec, but it's more complicated than that. Companies such as Glock, SigArms, Smith & Wesson, and Kimber target their market towards police and military markets, where Kel-Tec has no market share. I believe that many handgun purchasers will make buying decisions based on what the armed forces and law enforcement agencies use. I think that is how Beretta and 9mm handguns, in general, penetrated the "civilian" market.

All companies have to balance R&D money used for innovation versus sales and profits. Firearms manufacturers are not like electronics companies that must introduce new models every six months to keep up with market competition. A good example is the hundred year old design of the Model 1911. With slight improvements and modifications over the years, it continues to sell and be profitable for manufacturers.

Kel-Tec has their niche market just the same as Rohrbaugh and Kahr. The DoD is well known for giving contracts to the lowest bidder, but the majority of Kel-Tec's firearms would never make it past the first cut for a government contract.