TexasCHLforum.com

Walked into the YMCA in League City the other day and on the way out I noticed a 30.06 sign. I didn't pull out a tape measure or anything, but I'm not sure if the letters were 1", although if they weren't then they were close. But I don't think they could be considered contrasting colors. They were in thin black letters on a tinted window. No background or anything. It was also at the very bottom of the window and almost blocked by a bench or something if I remember correctly. That's why I didn't even see it until I was on the way out. It wasn't until then that it was not blocked and the glare off of the glass wasn't keeping me from noticing it. Just wondering if anyone else noticed this sign at this or any other Y locations and thoughts on whether or not it was in compliance. The wording seemed correct and it was in English and Spanish.

Recent company policy, I believe. I imagine they sent out the same stickers to all locations. The two close to me have very small letters also. Don't forget to post it at http://www.texas3006.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, my son plays flag football at the Y. The field is outdoors behind the actual building. Does that prevent me from carrying at his practices or games as well?

After rereading section 30.06 and the definitions in 30.05 it would seem to me that all of the property is off-limits once you realize the sign is present anywhere. Take that with a grain of salt, I'm no expert.

jcarp02 wrote:Also, my son plays flag football at the Y. The field is outdoors behind the actual building. Does that prevent me from carrying at his practices or games as well?

Depends. Do you pass correct signage when you enter the field?

...30.06 must be posted properly at each entrance open to the public...they miss one door...that's my door...no fair sneaking in the service entrance...

...if the entrances to the property/parking lot are not posted properly...they don't count...just posting one building doesn't cover all the buildings or the surrounding property...

...who sponsors your son's flag football??? consider that school sports and some sports activities may be off limits...consult your guide to be sure...when it's me who pays for errors...I gotta see it in da book!!!

speedsix wrote:...30.06 must be posted properly at each entrance open to the public...they miss one door...that's my door...no fair sneaking in the service entrance...

...if the entrances to the property/parking lot are not posted properly...they don't count...just posting one building doesn't cover all the buildings or the surrounding property...

You might want to review PC 30.06 again, because the above statement does not reflect what the law states...

PC 30.06 (3) (B) (iii) states -

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

TxKimberMan wrote:

speedsix wrote:...30.06 must be posted properly at each entrance open to the public...they miss one door...that's my door...no fair sneaking in the service entrance...

...if the entrances to the property/parking lot are not posted properly...they don't count...just posting one building doesn't cover all the buildings or the surrounding property...

You might want to review PC 30.06 again, because the above statement does not reflect what the law states...

PC 30.06 (3) (B) (iii) states -

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

So the question becomes one of defining "conspicuous." I cannot find a definition given in the statutes governing concealed carry. In the absence of a definition, a court would have to determine the meaning. One could argue that the term means something similar to its definition in the Texas Uniform Commercial Code, Tex.Code Ann. § 1.201(10) (1968):

"Conspicuous": A term or clause is conspicuous when it is so written that a reasonable person against whom it is to operate ought to have noticed it.

Applying such a definition to 30.06, one could argue that a sign posted at some, but not all, public entrances is not "conspicuous" because a reasonable person is likely not to notice it.

jamisjockey wrote:

jcarp02 wrote:Also, my son plays flag football at the Y. The field is outdoors behind the actual building. Does that prevent me from carrying at his practices or games as well?

Depends. Do you pass correct signage when you enter the field?

No. I don't even go near the front door. The only reason I even saw it the other day was because I had to go pick up a form.

Would the fact that it's not easiily visible negate it? I'll try to get a picture next time, but it's not very conspicuous.

Its a huge ugly grey area open to interpretation.
IMHO and INAL, if there isn't some kind of conspicuous postings where you enter the soccer field, then how can they expect you to comply? Do they even care about the soccer field? Maybe they just don't want people carrying inside the building.

jamisjockey wrote:Its a huge ugly grey area open to interpretation.

This is one of those "(maybe) beat the rap, but not the ride". I'm not going to hang my hat on a "maybe".

...was so instructed by CHL instructor...if it's not posted at the door you go in...and that's a door open to the public...it's not posted either conspicuously or clearly visible to the public...by any stretch of the imagination...

TxKimberMan wrote:

speedsix wrote:...30.06 must be posted properly at each entrance open to the public...they miss one door...that's my door...no fair sneaking in the service entrance...

...if the entrances to the property/parking lot are not posted properly...they don't count...just posting one building doesn't cover all the buildings or the surrounding property...

You might want to review PC 30.06 again, because the above statement does not reflect what the law states...

PC 30.06 (3) (B) (iii) states -

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Talk about providing a target rich environment!

I wonder where a letter protesting the sign should be sent?

...I have found that no matter how reasonably and pleasantly I present the case for CHL holders to be allowed access where 30.06 has been properly posted, more often than not I won't change their minds...usually corporate policy or personal opinion of the owner are behind it...

...if it does not adhere to ALL points in the law as to wording, size, and placement...it is not valid and no letter is necessary...and bringing it up to the management/owner would only accomplish a correction of their error or a VERBAL announcement that you could not carry there...just as binding on you as the properly done signage would be...


...one case in life where "if it's broke, DON'T fix it..." might apply...