TexasCHLforum.com

Are CHL's legally obligated (more than anyone else) to assist or render aid in anyway to a Police Officer if requested.

I recall during my CHL class the instructor briefly discussed this but I can't find any info on it.

No, you are not obligated in any way, shape or form to help

Amen Teamless.

This is not to say I wouldn't help a policeman who was in trouble but rushing in with a gun drawn will get you shot.

Does Texas have a posse law?

As I recall from the class, a CHL was required to assist. I remember because I thought "what?" As a CHL I have no more authority than anyone else yet obligated to help?

Not that I wouldnt but depends on the situation.

LSUTiger wrote:As I recall from the class, a CHL was required to assist. I remember because I thought "what?" As a CHL I have no more authority than anyone else yet obligated to help?

Your instructor did not give you the correct information. There is nothing in the CHL laws that say you have to assist.

PC §9.21. PUBLIC DUTY. (a) Except as qualified by Subsections (b)
and (c), conduct is justified if the actor reasonably believes the conduct
is required or authorized by law, by the judgment or order of a competent
court or other governmental tribunal, or in the execution of legal
process.
(b) The other sections of this chapter control when force is used
against a person to protect persons (Subchapter C), to protect property
(Subchapter D), for law enforcement (Subchapter E), or by virtue
of a special relationship (Subchapter F).
(c) The use of deadly force is not justified under this section unless
the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is specifically required
by statute or unless it occurs in the lawful conduct of war. If deadly
force is so justified, there is no duty to retreat before using it.
(d) The justification afforded by this section is available if the actor
reasonably believes:
(1) the court or governmental tribunal has jurisdiction or the process
is lawful, even though the court or governmental tribunal lacks jurisdiction
or the process is unlawful; or
(2) his conduct is required or authorized to assist a public servant
in the performance of his official duty, even though the servant exceeds
his lawful authority.

I think the confusion might be coming from the word "required" here...
Are there any circumstances where a person (CHL or no) can be "required" to assist a public servant?

LSUTiger wrote:As I recall from the class, a CHL was required to assist.

If you are recalling correctly, your instructor was wrong, and if you go charging, your instructor was dead wrong [with your life]
As stated

MoJo wrote:This is not to say I wouldn't help a policeman who was in trouble

I would also help, but I would be 100% certain that the officer(s) on scene knew and approved of my help.

RoyGBiv wrote:I think the confusion might be coming from the word "required" here...
Are there any circumstances where a person (CHL or no) can be "required" to assist a public servant?

That is why I asked about the "posse law".

I'm pretty certain that CHLs have no more legal obligation to aid law enforcement than anybody else.

What obligation there is generally probably requires an answer from a LEO or lawyer.

ETA: RoyGBiv posted the section that I thought I had read before but couldn't locate.

Code of Criminal Procedure Art. 2.14. MAY SUMMON AID.
Whenever a peace officer meets with resistance in discharging any duty imposed upon him by law, he shall summon a sufficient number of citizens of his county to overcome the resistance; and all persons summoned are bound to obey.

This is a posse. This law still is used, usually in rural counties in emergencies.

A CHL holder is not otherwise a junior deputy or anything of the sort.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

Code of Criminal Procedure Art. 2.14. MAY SUMMON AID.
Whenever a peace officer meets with resistance in discharging any duty imposed upon him by law, he shall summon a sufficient number of citizens of his county to overcome the resistance; and all persons summoned are bound to obey.

This is a posse. This law still is used, usually in rural counties in emergencies.

A CHL holder is not otherwise a junior deputy or anything of the sort.

- Jim

Thanks Jim! That's what I was looking for.

I think my confusion was with PC 9.21 Public Duty and the "posse" law.

I think what the instructor may have meant was that as a CHL it may be more likely that you would be asked for help in an emergency than a non CHL, not that as a CHL you are obligated any more than anyone else. It's been 2 yrs since the class so my memory was fuzzy about the issue.

I certainly do not want any added obligations as a CHL such as being a junior deputy. If I wanted that I'd join the police department. I just want to protect my self and family.

Not to say I wouldnt assist depending on the situation. However, generally I am not willing to risk my family or my own safety by getting involved in something unless that something leaves me no choice or threatens me. Unless I am threatened, I think that I would decline any requests for help from the police and deal with the consequences later.

The police are not legally obligated to protect anyone from harm why should anyone be legally obligated to put themselves in danger to help them?

LSUTiger -
Jim provided the correct statute for Texas. Even though the Texas law does not refer to the term "posse" the reason that I called it the "posse law" is that what it is commonly called in California. Just like Texas, the California law has nothing to do with whether or not a person has a concealed carry permit. In fact, it was probably written before Californians needed a permit to carry a gun. The California law applies to "every able-bodied person." The law states that:

Every able-bodied person above 18 years of age who neglects or refuses to join the posse comitatus or power of the county, by neglecting or refusing to aid and assist in taking or arresting any person against whom there may be issued any process, or by neglecting to aid and assist in retaking any person who, after being arrested or confined, may have escaped from arrest or imprisonment, or by neglecting or refusing to aid and assist in preventing any breach of the peace, or the commission of any criminal offense, being thereto lawfully required by any uniformed peace officer, or by any peace officer described in Section 830.1, subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d), (e), or (f) of Section 830.2, or subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, who identifies himself or herself with a badge or identification card issued by the officer's employing agency, or by any judge, is punishable by a fine of not less than fifty dollars ($50) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000).

WildBill wrote:

seamusTX wrote:

Code of Criminal Procedure Art. 2.14. MAY SUMMON AID.
Whenever a peace officer meets with resistance in discharging any duty imposed upon him by law, he shall summon a sufficient number of citizens of his county to overcome the resistance; and all persons summoned are bound to obey.

This is a posse. This law still is used, usually in rural counties in emergencies.

A CHL holder is not otherwise a junior deputy or anything of the sort.

- Jim

Thanks Jim! That's what I was looking for.

As stated, applies to all regardless of CHL.