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I need some scope recommendations for a S&W M&P 15 ORC in .223.

I want to use this rifle for target practice and hunting, looking for accuracy out to 100 - 200 yards. I also want something that could be used in a home defense CQB situation. Ideally looking for a scope that fits both applications, but if I needed to choose one, it would be the HD scenario.

I would like a compact / tactical scope. Something that looks like it belongs on a military type weapon, not a huge hunting scope. Budget is flexible. Looking to spend up to $500 - $1,000, but definitely want good quality for the money.

Ideally, I want a scope that does not require batteries to function, so it needs to have a reticle that is visible without batteries (although it could also have the option of being illuminated). For a HD application, I won't have time to install batteries, and I believe you are not generally supposed to keep the batteries in the scope for extended periods.

I was looking at holographic scopes and these seem interesting (although they would require batteries to function I believe). I would be interested in any feedback from people that have used these scopes. In particular, Can I store this type of a scope on an AR that is sitting in my gun safe, and keep the batteries in the scope for extended periods?

What are you describing is something called ACOG, no batteries, 4X, deployed in battlefield and within your budget.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_C ... l_Gunsight" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Visual:

Beiruty wrote:What are you describing is something called ACOG, no batteries, 4X, deployed in battlefield and within your budget.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_C ... l_Gunsight" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Visual:

Thanks!

That may be exactly what I am looking for.

Katygunnut wrote:

Beiruty wrote:What are you describing is something called ACOG, no batteries, 4X, deployed in battlefield and within your budget.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_C ... l_Gunsight" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Visual:

Thanks!

That may be exactly what I am looking for.

Actually, they are just a tad over your budget: http://swfa.com/Trijicon-Acog-Rifle-Scopes-C208.aspx... ...coming in at about $1036.00. But they are pretty neat, and I'd love to have one.

Alternatively, a EOTech holographic sight with a flip-to-side 3X magnifier would work too. I have about $900 in my combination.

Also, Aimpoint makes good rugged optics with low power magnification aimed at CQB and shorter ranges. I'm less familiar with their prices.

Here is something available here on the forum.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=43179" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Save your money and spend it on practice ammo. You don't need a scope at anything less than 300 meters, and you don't want a scope in a close quarters situation. Little things like eye relief, exit pupil size and parallax work against you in a up-close and personal situation. Learn how to point shoot through the irons and you can shoot fast and accurate out to about 15 meters.

The term "Back Up Iron Sights" (or BUIS) was coined by someone who's never had the battery on their backup optical sight go dead just when they really, really needed it. Irons don't need batteries, don't go dead, generally don't lose their zero, don't fog up in humid conditions. They do not cost a lot ($200 ball park for the best on the market) but they lack that "I'm soooo tacti-cooool" look. In short, they are not sexy. But they just are there when you need them. Isn't that what you are really looking for?

"No amount of cool gear will make up for a fundamental lack of skill."

Silent Professional wrote:Save your money and spend it on practice ammo. You don't need a scope at anything less than 300 meters, and you don't want a scope in a close quarters situation. Little things like eye relief, exit pupil size and parallax work against you in a up-close and personal situation. Learn how to point shoot through the irons and you can shoot fast and accurate out to about 15 meters.

The term "Back Up Iron Sights" (or BUIS) was coined by someone who's never had the battery on their backup optical sight go dead just when they really, really needed it. Irons don't need batteries, don't go dead, generally don't lose their zero, don't fog up in humid conditions. They do not cost a lot ($200 ball park for the best on the market) but they lack that "I'm soooo tacti-cooool" look. In short, they are not sexy. But they just are there when you need them. Isn't that what you are really looking for?

"No amount of cool gear will make up for a fundamental lack of skill."

Yep, yep, At 50 yrds, I was hitting less than 2" from dead center with my AK74 Tantal. I love this rifle.
On my SIG 556, I have a 2.5-10X50 Nikon scope, at 2.5X you can still look into the scope and shoot. Just to be safe, A laser/light and forward grip was added to complete the tacti-coolness. What kills this package is: Weight.

Silent Professional wrote:Save your money and spend it on practice ammo. You don't need a scope at anything less than 300 meters, and you don't want a scope in a close quarters situation. Little things like eye relief, exit pupil size and parallax work against you in a up-close and personal situation. Learn how to point shoot through the irons and you can shoot fast and accurate out to about 15 meters.

The term "Back Up Iron Sights" (or BUIS) was coined by someone who's never had the battery on their backup optical sight go dead just when they really, really needed it. Irons don't need batteries, don't go dead, generally don't lose their zero, don't fog up in humid conditions. They do not cost a lot ($200 ball park for the best on the market) but they lack that "I'm soooo tacti-cooool" look. In short, they are not sexy. But they just are there when you need them. Isn't that what you are really looking for?

"No amount of cool gear will make up for a fundamental lack of skill."

I agree with what you are saying. I spent 4 years in the Army using iron sights and was reasonably accurate out to 150 - 200 yards. The 300 yard targets were a bit of a challenge. I have used both, but I must say that I am more accurate with a scope. I can hit a man sized torso at 100 yards with either, but if I want to reliably put the bullet in a tighter area at that distance, then a scope is more likely to get the job done for me.

I have a couple AR's. I may go with iron sights on one of them, but I like the idea of a scope for the other.

There actually is a Trijicon ACOG scope with back-up iron sights on top of the scope body. Seems like it might be a little of the best of both worlds.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... roductDesc

Silent Professional wrote:Save your money and spend it on practice ammo. You don't need a scope at anything less than 300 meters, and you don't want a scope in a close quarters situation. Little things like eye relief, exit pupil size and parallax work against you in a up-close and personal situation. Learn how to point shoot through the irons and you can shoot fast and accurate out to about 15 meters.

The term "Back Up Iron Sights" (or BUIS) was coined by someone who's never had the battery on their backup optical sight go dead just when they really, really needed it. Irons don't need batteries, don't go dead, generally don't lose their zero, don't fog up in humid conditions. They do not cost a lot ($200 ball park for the best on the market) but they lack that "I'm soooo tacti-cooool" look. In short, they are not sexy. But they just are there when you need them. Isn't that what you are really looking for?

"No amount of cool gear will make up for a fundamental lack of skill."

"No amount of cool gear will make up for a fundamental lack of honestly assessing your skills including you individual physical limitations."

There. I corrected it for you. If I were still 25, I would have agreed with the original version, but so far the Fountain of Youth has eluded me. There are exceptions to every rule - like 58 year old eyeballs, for instance. That is exactly why I went for a 0X holographic sight system, with an optional magnifier for distances. I can't reliably see at 200 meters, let alone at 300 meters without magnification. And the illuminated red reticle of the EOTech helps my eyes to pick up the aiming point/target. The wide field of view allows me to shoot with both eyes open if I want to, and there are no "exit pupil" issues. And the 3X magnifier (also an EOTech) is there on a flip to side mount if I actually need magnification. Do I have flip up irons? Yes. Do I practice with them? Yes. Can I confidently hit a target inside of 50-75 yards with them? Reasonably so, less so if the target is moving. But they are a backup sights for a reason: for an old fart with failing eyesight, a fancy optic is a better choice - batteries, etc., notwithstanding.

The Annoyed Man wrote:Alternatively, a EOTech holographic sight with a flip-to-side 3X magnifier would work too. I have about $900 in my combination.

Also, Aimpoint makes good rugged optics with low power magnification aimed at CQB and shorter ranges. I'm less familiar with their prices.

Aimpoint is priced pretty similarly to EOTech--if you don't need the absolute high-end model with night vision capability and all the bells and whistles, you can get them for $4-500. They do have the advantage of battery life--EOTech is supposed to get about 1000 hours on a set of batteries, while the Aimpoints have a battery life of 10-50,000 hours (over 5 years). Most Aimpoint owners just leave it on all the time and replace the batteries once a year.

Any of the 3 (ACOG, Aimpoint, EOTech) would be great for what you describe. I'd lean away from magnification greater than 2X for HD use, and you really don't need a magnified optic for range use limited to 200 yards.

I want to use this rifle for target practice and hunting, looking for accuracy out to 100 - 200 yards. I also want something that could be used in a home defense CQB situation. Ideally looking for a scope that fits both applications, but if I needed to choose one, it would be the HD scenario.

For your budget, and your priority on HD, I'd go with a red dot optic.

EOTech sets the standard these days for your purposes imo. The combination of a 65 MOA ring and a 1 MOA central aiming dot allows for rapid sight picture acquisition up close, and accuracy out at range. The reticle housing is shorter than most tube sights, like aim-points for example, which also helps with acquiring your sight picture. The reticle intensity is fully adjustable, and bright enough to function properly in the brightest daylight. They are also tough and durable, and can be purchased with a metal shield to protect the reticle housing. They held up pretty well in training, and during real world missions in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Aimpoints are good too, however, I prefer the EOTech.

Another option to consider is the C-more line of red dot optics. They are currently one of the predominant sights you'll see being used on pistols in the USPSA open division, and they can be mounted on rifles as well. The C-more tactical model would be an excellent alternative, and ideal for HD use, as it is one of the fastest to use due to the small reticle housing. They are less expensive, and very suited to civilian use.

While I can't speak for the C-more (we didn't use those at work) both the Aimpoint and EOTech are tough enough for the job. We beat those things around in aircraft, vehicles, did cheetah flips, fell off buildings, landed on runways, drowned, froze, and blazed them in the sun, and they held up fine and maintained their zero. All 3 sights do not limit your ability to use irons. Don't be afraid of technology.

Unless you NEED a magnified optic, I'd stick with the red dot optics.

I NEEDED magnification and used an ACOG for about 15 years on my work gun. Great for target ID, adjusting MG fire, and engaging targets at range, however, I HATED having to use it for room clearing, as the integrated irons on the sight pretty much sucked. But then J-point eventually came out with their micro-dot sight, which was promptly mounted on top of my ACOG. Best of all worlds achieved, and that combo currently resides on my HD AR.

Good luck with your decision.

The Annoyed Man wrote: There. I corrected it for you. If I were still 25, I would have agreed with the original version, but so far the Fountain of Youth has eluded me. There are exceptions to every rule - like 58 year old eyeballs, for instance. That is exactly why I went for a 0X holographic sight system, with an optional magnifier for distances. I can't reliably see at 200 meters, let alone at 300 meters without magnification. And the illuminated red reticle of the EOTech helps my eyes to pick up the aiming point/target. The wide field of view allows me to shoot with both eyes open if I want to, and there are no "exit pupil" issues. And the 3X magnifier (also an EOTech) is there on a flip to side mount if I actually need magnification. Do I have flip up irons? Yes. Do I practice with them? Yes. Can I confidently hit a target inside of 50-75 yards with them? Reasonably so, less so if the target is moving. But they are a backup sights for a reason: for an old fart with failing eyesight, a fancy optic is a better choice - batteries, etc., notwithstanding.

You beat me to it TAM......

Unless I can take the time to don my "computer" glasses, I can't see squat with the irons. I can't even see through the rear peep. It's just a blurry jumble of nothing. Having my Aimpoint is a blessing. No magnification, both eyes open, and immediate target acquisition. I don't even need to have my cheek to the stock like one does with irons. If I can see the dot, that's where the bullet is going.

And yes, it looks "Tacti-Cool".