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Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:06 pm
by XnTx
Ok, my NICS application was denied and I feel like crap. I've had TS clearances in the Navy and am still a DOD civilian employee. The only thing I can think of is the wording in a Dallas divorce from 2000, "The court finds that the parties have agreed to a permanent injunction.....are permanently enjoined from coming within 500 feet of, entering, or remaining on the premises of the other parties' residence, except as permitted by order of the court." Could this be the reason for the denial? I'm going thru the NICS appeal, but how do I challenge this if this is the problem? New to all of this and starting to feel like less than an honorable citizen.
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:30 pm
by hirundo82
Have you passed the NICS check successfully in the past? The frequent criminal records checks required to maintain a security clearance have been known to raise red flags with NICS, but that's usually a delay rather than a deny.
The following is the federal law pertaining to restraining orders and firearms:
§ 922. Unlawful acts
(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(8) who is subject to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
(C)
(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury;
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
I'd contact your divorce attorney about whether that section applies to you, as well as start the NICS appeals process (which usually takes the beter part of a year from what I've heard). I wouldn't consider a private purchase until you determine whether you are actually a prohibited person since that could have serious repercussions if you actually are prohibited from owning firearms and are caught with one (like 10 years hard time kind of serious).
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:33 pm
by pcgizzmo
NICS would not have the divorce documents in their database. The only way something like that would show up in their database is if you had criminal action take place against you for family violence. Do you have any felonys? Dishonorable discharge from the military? Mental issues? If not, then you should legally be able to own a fire arm. Most likely your name and our social is very close to someone that has these issues and you go denied based on that.
If that is the case you should be able to clear it up.
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:49 pm
by XnTx
This was my first NICS application. I already own some family hand me downs, shotgun, 30-06, .22 pistol.
No on the felonies, warrants, misdemeanors, mental defects, domestic violence. I had the usual teenage scrapes 40 years ago and have passed multiple NSA checks since. Heck, I carried my uncle's 1911 in the Navy.
I've thought about home defense and CHL for several years, but kept putting it off or blaming it on paranoia. Old age and the current state of society has made me reconsider. Weeks of researching and reviews and fondling different weapons sold me on the M&P 9...now she's off limits.
I am not currently CHL. Would getting TX CHL negate the NICS check? I'm going to do the VAP after the appeal. This is really bothering me.
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:08 pm
by hirundo82
XnTx wrote:I am not currently CHL. Would getting TX CHL negate the NICS check? I'm going to do the VAP after the appeal. This is really bothering me.
Yeah, a Texas CHL exempts you from NICS. With the FBI background check with prints that each applicant goes through, they make darn sure you are who you say you are and that you aren't a prohibited person.
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:11 pm
by KaiserB
XnTx wrote:This was my first NICS application. I already own some family hand me downs, shotgun, 30-06, .22 pistol.
No on the felonies, warrants, misdemeanors, mental defects, domestic violence. I had the usual teenage scrapes 40 years ago and have passed multiple NSA checks since. Heck, I carried my uncle's 1911 in the Navy.
I've thought about home defense and CHL for several years, but kept putting it off or blaming it on paranoia. Old age and the current state of society has made me reconsider. Weeks of researching and reviews and fondling different weapons sold me on the M&P 9...now she's off limits.
I am not currently CHL. Would getting TX CHL negate the NICS check? I'm going to do the VAP after the appeal. This is really bothering me.
Do you by chance have a common name? NICS could have you confused with another individual with a similar name.
You may try submitting you SS# on the 4473 and see if that helps your NICS check issue.
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:18 pm
by XnTx
My name is fairly uncommon, but not rare. I googled myself and felony, without middle name, and got 800+ hits! Maybe I have some bad cuzs out there.
So is the consensus that the permanent injunction from the divorce decree is a non-issue? Would it impact getting a TX CHL?
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:40 pm
by ScottDLS
XnTx wrote:This was my first NICS application. I already own some family hand me downs, shotgun, 30-06, .22 pistol.
No on the felonies, warrants, misdemeanors, mental defects, domestic violence. I had the usual teenage scrapes 40 years ago and have passed multiple NSA checks since. Heck, I carried my uncle's 1911 in the Navy.
I've thought about home defense and CHL for several years, but kept putting it off or blaming it on paranoia. Old age and the current state of society has made me reconsider. Weeks of researching and reviews and fondling different weapons sold me on the M&P 9...now she's off limits.
I am not currently CHL. Would getting TX CHL negate the NICS check? I'm going to do the VAP after the appeal. This is really bothering me.
I can't say for sure, but I'll bet it's some inaccurately reported info showing up in NICS (e.g. arrest w/ no disposition, someone else with similar name/birth date). CHL will get you out of a NICS check, but I believe a NICS check is part of the background check for CHL, so you'll need to resolve the issue anyway.
One thing about Feds and the higher level DoD/Agency security clearances....they are generally very thorough so they investigate things until they find out what the ultimate problem is... NICS is just an automated database. Now that said, it should be noted that it is possible to be a convicted felon or prohibited person and still get a very high level security clearance. It may not be common, but is possible.
I doubt that's the issue in your case, so I'd go through the NICS appeal and find out what the deal is.
-Scott
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:30 pm
by 2up1down
Have you ran yourself here?
https://records.txdps.state.tx.us/DpsWe ... alHistory/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Only cost a couple of bucks. Texas DPS online criminal history.
Also. might be Identity theft?
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:41 pm
by mrvmax
Go here, read and follow the process. You can find out why you were denied and possibly get a UPIN assigned for further NICS checks.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/appeals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:06 pm
by tbrown
ScottDLS wrote:One thing about Feds and the higher level DoD/Agency security clearances....they are generally very thorough so they investigate things until they find out what the ultimate problem is... NICS is just an automated database. Now that said, it should be noted that it is possible to be a convicted felon or prohibited person and still get a very high level security clearance. It may not be common, but is possible.
That's why I always
when someone mentions they have a security clearance. It means little when it comes to their ability to pass the CHL background check. If they say they have never been arrested, that's a much better indicator than a work-related clearance, or a TWIC, or NEXUS card.
I doubt the divorce decree has anything to do with the denial but the two paths forward are to appeal the denial and/or apply for a CHL to bypass future NICS checks.
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:15 pm
by speedsix
...as I followed those suggested paths...I wouldn't be the one to bring up the divorce decree's wording...doesn't sound prohibitive if there's no history of violence attached, but might make it easy for a bureaucratic mind to slam shut...let THEM bring it up...
...thanks for your service to our country and hope you get them straightened out!!!
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:17 pm
by jmra
I can tell you from my own experience that listing your SS# does absolutely nothing to help your cause. Before getting my CHL I was denied due to same name and birth date as a felon up North. When I spoke to an agent and told them I listed my SS# I was told that the NICS system was name based only.
The only thing accomplished by putting your SS# on the paperwork is it makes it easier for them to find you later if there is ever an issue.
Didn't have any problems getting my CHL. Oh, the denial occurred while I was waiting on my CHL.
Re: Help, NICS Denied
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:54 am
by speedsix
...not on a new form...can't re-submit the one that they denied, and must keep it in file...I'd try a new one with SSN before I went the appeal process...they prolly have too many Herkimer Schlossbergs and the SSN may clear it all up...the form says it's helpful...