TexasCHLforum.com

I decided to start a new thread from this one. I've been looking for this information for a few hours now and this is about the most I have found so far.

Is there any validity to this chart?

Due to the new parking lot law, I have a rare opportunity to try and effect change with my company's policy. I have found Charles' spreadsheet on CHL versus population convictions, but it would also be nice to point to the conviction rates of law enforcement officers.

TrueFlog wrote:

hirundo82 wrote:

sookandy wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:I just want to slap people like this because they tarnish all of us. You never see a news story that says "Meanwhile, CHL holders committed fewer crimes today than policemen."

That would be one interesting stat to see.

I've looked for it, but nobody seems to collect stats on conviction rates among law enforcement. I'd bet it is similar to CHLs, or to any other segment of society with a clean background. The best predictor of future criminal behavior is past criminal behavior, and neither group tends to have a history of that.

The website Injustice Everywhere attempts to track police misconduct and produces an annual report available here. Scroll down to the section labeled "Misconduct Per Capita", and you'll see the following:

When current data is filtered to examine only incidents that can be classified as violent crimes as specified per the US FBI/DOJ Uniform Crime Reporting standards and then compared with the 2009 FBI/DOJ UCR Crime in the United States report as a per capita general population and per capita law enforcement basis the results indicate that overall violent crime rates are not too divergent between the two population groups with a difference of only 20.1 per 100k point between the two. However, there appear to be some more significant differences at a more granular level with robbery rates for police far below those reported for the general population but sexual assault rates are significantly higher for police when compared to the general population.

His conclusion is that police commit violent crimes at essentially the same rate as the general population. We know (from Charles' posts and elsewhere) that CHL'er commit crimes at a rate far less than the general population, so it stands to reason that CHL'ers commit crimes at a rate far less than LEO's.

Stats shown above are puzzling. I understand that there are lot of assault cases due to excessive force on the job. But crime rates at as the rate of the general population?

Beiruty wrote:But crime rates at as the rate of the general population?

They come from the same group of citizens as plumbers and mechanics and accountants.

One of the big demographic differences between CHL and LE is the average age of new CHL and new LE.

The only one that puzzles me is the one about robbery.

C-dub wrote:I decided to start a new thread from this one. I've been looking for this information for a few hours now and this is about the most I have found so far.

Is there any validity to this chart?

The data that makes up the graph comes from the FBI's UCR (Uniform Crime Report) data (see: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). The graph itself was prepared by the NPMSRP (National Police Misconduct Statistics and Reporting Project -- see: http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/?p=4053" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

Wow I had no Idea

BAT

I'm worried that my question and this data may be misleading. Yes, the LE numbers are significantly higher, but look at their job.

Think of these offenses compared to offenses committed by soldiers during a war when exposed to prolonged combat. It might not be the best comparison, but it's better than comparing LE straight up to CHLs. We are not exposed to the same environment that LEOs are, but we are exposed to the same environment as someone who does not have a CHL.

From the "Injustice everywhere" web site:

Of the 6,613 law enforcement officers involved in reported allegations of misconduct that met NPMSRP criteria for tracking purposes...

REPORTED ALLEGATIONS!?!



Reported allegations are meaningless to me. Folks make all kinds of allegations for a variety of reasons. Convictions, on the other hand, would provide me with the ability to form an opinion one way or another.

If these are accurate I can totally understand fatal excessive use of force, murder, sexual assaults, and robbery. I don't quite understand "all violent crimes" and "assaults".

Cops and soldiers can easily find themselves in positions to be accused of use excessive force more often...accused of committing murder more often...and getting caught more often than normal folks for committing sexual assault because their government agency nearly always finds out about it. And it makes sense to me that LE officers could get away with/and/or not commit robbery as often as average criminals.

I can understand all that...but I can't put two and two together with violent crimes and assaults.

Yeah TDM called it.

http://www.tcleose.state.tx.us/content/publications.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Go down to the publications and review the revocations and suspensions (or click here http://www.tcleose.state.tx.us/publicat ... ension.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

That is more relevant, and official than some website tracking allegations. I've been alleged of half of those things...

In my time on the job, I've seen 4 CHL holders arrested, a jailer, and 2 officers. (jailer had CHL)

The web site that prepared the graphic made a very common mistake of comparing apples to oranges. They used the FBI UCR data to get what appears to be the number of crimes reported to the police and classified by the police. They then compared this with the misconduct of the police as reported by the media and classified by themselves. In the first case, the police made some verification that the crime had actually occurred. In the second case, there is no verification that anything occurred and no attempt to check if the complaint was justified or not. They specifically rejected using court data on police (according to their about page) because so much police misconduct does not make it to court. By comparing the data from two very different sources, with different standards for what is reported, the comparison is rendered useless.