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Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:01 pm
by AlaskanInTexas
So my employer has a no guns in parking lot policy, which will become invalid shortly. Initially, I have intended to just quietly change my behavior when the legislation goes into effect. I like being discreet with my gun toting ways and I don't want to make any waves. But now I am wondering if it makes sense to bring the legislation to my employer's attention and ask that the policy be updated. I hate to think of other employees leaving their guns at home because they don't understand that the law trumps the policy. Any thoughts?
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:02 pm
by terryg
I'm in the same boat as you and I don't plan to make any waves. Although the fightin' part of me wants to make a big stink about it - cooler heads must prevail.
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:06 pm
by Teamless
AlaskanInTexas wrote:Any thoughts?
If your company has a no guns policy (in the parking lot), I would believe that they are fully aware of the parking lot law that takes effect September 1, 2011.
I would not bring anything up to them, as if they are really anti-gun, they would then know that you (1) you want to carry a gun if only in your car and (2) that you probably tend to carry when not at work (so outside work functions - dinners - etc, they may intentionally plan at locations where you cannot carry, or if they are super Anti-Gun, they could find reasons to let you go.
Worse case, starting September 1, 2011, you carry. If they give you grief, or worse, they are then breaking the law and you have just cause for a lawsuit to at least protect your rights.
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:07 pm
by RottenApple
If you bring it up with your employer you will, in effect, notify them that you are a CHL holder. That could bring problems down upon your head. Remember, Texas is a right-to-work state and they don't have to give a reason for termination. I also believe that it is up to each individual to take personal responsibility for their own safety. That includes being aware of what laws affect their ability to provide for their own safety.
IMHO, if it were my employer, I would keep my mouth shut. Concealed is concealed after all.
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:09 pm
by Heartland Patriot
I wouldn't bring it up to the employer unless a problem arises. I would inform those of my co-workers that I consider friends and let the grapevine do the work. Some companies might devise "alternate" methods of trying to enforce a now improper policy if it is brought to their attention. Yeah, their attitude might be correctable in a court because the law would be on your side. But unless you have a problem with them, why put yourself through the aggravation.
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:16 pm
by Beiruty
What if the parking lot stays 30.06 posted? Do you ignore after the law is in effect?
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:21 pm
by psijac
If other employees didn't already know about the new law. I wouldn't want them to carry anyway. There is miles of difference between a gun owner and an responsible gun owner
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:29 pm
by C-dub
I agree. Mums, the word.
My employer thinks they know what they are doing with regards to their weapons policy, but I doubt it. They do not post any 30.06 signs anywhere, yet believe they have effectively restricted guns from the property by only stating in the employee handbook that only on duty LEOs can carry on the property. We do have government contracts, but are a privately owned company. I know they are aware of the new law because our HR director sent out an e-mail to management informing us of it, but not exactly what our new policy would be.
I'm optimistic that they will not try anything funny, but wouldn't put it past them. As I've said in another thread, after 9.1.11, if they want to search my vehicle I will gladly let them and if they find my gun that's just fine. I think it could give me the ability to use that as a reason for wrongful termination in the future if they were to terminate me without cause. However, when it comes to letting people go they are pretty smart about that, so I don't think that will happen.
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:30 pm
by C-dub
psijac wrote:There is miles of difference between a gun owner and an responsible gun owner
You got that right!!!
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:32 pm
by Pawpaw
Beiruty wrote:What if the parking lot stays 30.06 posted? Do you ignore after the law is in effect?
Charles has made it abundantly clear that, as long as the weapon stays in the vehicle, you are carrying under MPA and not your CHL. If you step out of the vehicle with the weapon, then you are in violation of 30.06.
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:06 pm
by C-dub
Pawpaw wrote:Beiruty wrote:What if the parking lot stays 30.06 posted? Do you ignore after the law is in effect?
Charles has made it abundantly clear that, as long as the weapon stays in the vehicle, you are carrying under MPA and not your CHL. If you step out of the vehicle with the weapon, then you are in violation of 30.06.
Hey Pawpaw.
I have a feeling I'm going to open a can of worms now. If the gun is in the vehicle I don't think MPA or CHL matters, since someone that has their gun in their vehicle under the authority of either is covered. However, actually posting the parking with a 30.06 sign got me to thinking. If there is nothing mentioned in the employee hand book and there is otherwise no "policy", is posting a 30.06 sign for the parking lot enforceable? Or does simply putting one up constitute a policy? I'm thinking/hoping that it does.
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:53 pm
by apostate
C-dub wrote:However, actually posting the parking with a 30.06 sign got me to thinking. If there is nothing mentioned in the employee hand book and there is otherwise no "policy", is posting a 30.06 sign for the parking lot enforceable? Or does simply putting one up constitute a policy? I'm thinking/hoping that it does.
How else would they provide effective notice to visitors, vendors/salesmen, and the UPS guy?
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:56 am
by C-dub
apostate wrote:C-dub wrote:However, actually posting the parking with a 30.06 sign got me to thinking. If there is nothing mentioned in the employee hand book and there is otherwise no "policy", is posting a 30.06 sign for the parking lot enforceable? Or does simply putting one up constitute a policy? I'm thinking/hoping that it does.
How else would they provide effective notice to visitors, vendors/salesmen, and the UPS guy?
They don't now, nor have they ever. They actually only prevent employees from carrying on the property by saying so in the employee handbook. Also, BTW, not 30.06 wording. But, they still think they are preventing everyone except on duty LE from bringing a gun on the property.
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:45 am
by kjolly
Good advice here. While not parnoid I feel it is a bad thing to advertise that you are carrying. It could make them paranoid into dismissing you. Good jobs are difficult to find.
Currently the only posting is in the HR manual that few people are reading. If you do not permit a search of your vehicle its potential grounds for dismissal.
After Sept 1 I am carrying in vehicle but not advertizing. The parking garage is not posted but they do have the HR policy. If they did search your car and find a gun you are still legal through they can find any reason or no reason to dismiss you.
Re: Parking Lot Policy
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:08 am
by Jumping Frog
I have been in business long enough to be intimately familiar with how most HR types think. I'll pass on a set of rules originally written by an HR friend of mine whose screen name is "Tweed Ring". I call them "Tweed's Rules". You can choose to ignore the advice or take it.
Tweed Ring wrote:Keep your personal business, all your personal business, to yourself.
Here's an example:
One weekend, I spent most of my time training and certifying police officers in the use of the side handle baton. I happened to mention this fact in passing during my Monday morning staff meeting at an employer which was very anti-gun. Before the day ended, my boss called me to his office as he was concerned to learn that I was hosting a militia movement. People say and do crazy things at work.
And, I was one of those HR types.
1. ) I do not own a gun, and I shall never talk to my co-workers about guns.
2.) I do not want to own a gun and I shall never talk to my co-workers about guns.
3.) I don't want to talk to anyone who owns a gun, and I shall never talk to my co-workers about guns.
4.) If someone is talking about guns, I shall walk away, and I shall never talk to my co-workers about guns.
5.) My hobbies are very interesting and entertaining, but, I shall never talk to my co-workers about guns.
6.) The hobbies of my significant other, (if any) and children (if any) are very interesting and entertaining and I shall never talk to my co-workers about guns.
I think anyone reading this will see a trend developing.
This advice is free.
I worked in a place that was pro-gun, and I worked in a place that was very anti-gun. In any anti-gun place, I can assure you that once an employee makes a comment about guns, it will eventually be filtered back to HR with a strong recommendation to "do something."
I find there are many people who either work for a family business or small company that they already know it is firearms-friendly, and they will object to these rules saying they aren't needed. However, these rules are aimed at workplaces large enough to have an organized HR department with a set of workplace policies in place. I'd never mention guns at work. I learned the hard way in a previous job after innocent conversation with a co-worker was twisted by an overhearing anti-gunner and eventually escalated into a totally bogus "final warning notice".