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Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:59 am
by Scott in Houston
So, I went to visit a friend at a small hospital yesterday. I went to park by the front entrance, and there were almost no cars, which was odd because during the week, this lot is packed according to my wife. (this was my first visit there)
I decided to keep my carry gun on me knowing that I'd likely see a 30.06 but wanted to chance it.
We got to the main entrance and it's locked with a sign saying to use another entrance on the weekends. (That explains the parking lot).
So we walk around to a side entrance that's not normally for the public. I looked everywhere and there was no sign of any type including the dreaded 30.06.
So I carry away. Well, when we escorted our patient friend on a walk around the hospital we pass the main entrance and I look over and see it.
A giant, very clearly displayed 30.06.
Then I'm in this awkward situation of having to find a reason to leave and return to the car.
I use the fail-safe "oops. My phone is still in my car."
His response was, "Well, you can't use it in the hospital anyway." Doh!
I replied, "Yeah, but the heat kills your battery."
I was able to go disarm and return.
The lesson(s)?
1) Don't walk by public entrances next time!
2) "Concealed means concealed" <-- some would say to continue carrying and just stay concealed. I'm not comfortable doing that if/when I'm officially given effective notice.
3) Have a good return to the car excuse ready and a good backup excuse.
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:48 pm
by wharvey
I was under the impression that the sign had to be posted at all commonly used entrances, not just the main entrance.
It would appear that the entrance you used may be used each weekend.
Had a similar instance happen to me earlier this year. Was taking my wife to one of her doctor's office which is located in a hospital. The main entrance is posted using the gun buster sign, (not a 30.06 but this is a different state so the gunbuster sign is valid there. The state in question does not put hospitals automatically off limits).
We entered through the "Pain Institute" entrance and since it wasn't posted I didn't bother to disarm. Felt a bit strange but didn't figure I was illegal since I had no notification.
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:11 pm
by tacticool
wharvey wrote:I was under the impression that the sign had to be posted at all commonly used entrances, not just the main entrance.
That's a common belief but it's not what the written law says and I don't think there's case law saying all entrances must be posted.
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:13 pm
by RottenApple
wharvey wrote:I was under the impression that the sign had to be posted at all commonly used entrances, not just the main entrance.
It would appear that the entrance you used may be used each weekend.
Unfortunately this is not correct. There is no requirement for each entrance to be posted. Only for the sign to be "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public". So if you enter a building and the entrance is not posted, but you later see a valid 30.06 sign, I believe you would then be under obligation to leave the premises and disarm before returning. BTW, IANAL.
PC ยง30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chap- ter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed
handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was
forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the
owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language
identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (con- cealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the prop- erty on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:49 pm
by 40khammer
I work security at a hospital on my days off from my other job and we have signs posted at every entrance except the emergency exits. We also have signs posted in front of all the elevators so as soon as the doors open up that's what you see.
However, on the 3rd and 2nd floor the signs in front of the elevators have a giant red 51 on them. My question is is there anything wrong with the hospital posting the 51 sign or can it be fined by the BATFE or anything like that?
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:06 pm
by boba
40khammer wrote:However, on the 3rd and 2nd floor the signs in front of the elevators have a giant red 51 on them. My question is is there anything wrong with the hospital posting the 51 sign or can it be fined by the BATFE or anything like that?
I can't think of any law they're breaking by posting 51% signs.
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:23 pm
by WickedOwl
40khammer wrote:However, on the 3rd and 2nd floor the signs in front of the elevators have a giant red 51 on them. My question is is there anything wrong with the hospital posting the 51 sign or can it be fined by the BATFE or anything like that?
I'm trying to figure out how a hospital thinks that 51% of their revenue comes from on-premesis alcohol consumption... Am I missing something here?
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:28 pm
by gigag04
I use my phone in a hospital all the time..??
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:44 pm
by 40khammer
WickedOwl wrote:40khammer wrote:However, on the 3rd and 2nd floor the signs in front of the elevators have a giant red 51 on them. My question is is there anything wrong with the hospital posting the 51 sign or can it be fined by the BATFE or anything like that?
I'm trying to figure out how a hospital thinks that 51% of their revenue comes from on-premesis alcohol consumption... Am I missing something here?
That's kinda what I was getting at. They don't. I'm not sure why those signs have the 51 on them. All the rest have the regular legal signs.
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:33 pm
by Scott in Houston
gigag04 wrote:I use my phone in a hospital all the time..??
Some hospitals don't because of the fear they may interfere with hospital electronics.
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:16 pm
by johnson0317
There used to be some problems with the phone frequency interfering with the frequency used on some electronics in the hospital...ventilators was one example. I think it was more of an urban myth than anything. It is kind of funny, I will still see nurses stop families from using their phones, but the doctors, we nurse practitioners, and the nurses rounding with the doctors all use our phones constantly.
RJ
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:42 pm
by Scott in Houston
Yeah. It's a silly rule. TCH is issuing iPhones to their staff now (nurses mostly) to stay in contact.
I still didn't wan to violate a clearly posted rule though.
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:59 pm
by GhostTX
Just visited a friend today at one of the local hospitals and it just had a "no guns allowed" verbiage with a gun buster symbol at the main entrance. My wife leans in to me as we're walking on in and says, "Don't you have to back to the car to leave something there?" "Nope, it's not valid." "But..." "There's a very specific sign they have to post and I'm not legally bound to anything that it just said." And we just continued on it, spoke with nurses, saw our friend, got a snack in the cafeteria, and left.
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:00 pm
by WickedOwl
40khammer wrote:WickedOwl wrote:40khammer wrote:However, on the 3rd and 2nd floor the signs in front of the elevators have a giant red 51 on them. My question is is there anything wrong with the hospital posting the 51 sign or can it be fined by the BATFE or anything like that?
I'm trying to figure out how a hospital thinks that 51% of their revenue comes from on-premesis alcohol consumption... Am I missing something here?
That's kinda what I was getting at. They don't. I'm not sure why those signs have the 51 on them. All the rest have the regular legal signs.
First thing Monday morning I'm patenting my idea for the best hospital ever.
Re: Random carry at hospital story (small lesson maybe?)
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:54 pm
by MasterOfNone
40khammer wrote:I work security at a hospital on my days off from my other job and we have signs posted at every entrance except the emergency exits. We also have signs posted in front of all the elevators so as soon as the doors open up that's what you see.
However, on the 3rd and 2nd floor the signs in front of the elevators have a giant red 51 on them. My question is is there anything wrong with the hospital posting the 51 sign or can it be fined by the BATFE or anything like that?
GC 411.204 still requires hospitals to post the same sign as bars, but without the red 51. It's possible someone misunderstood that code or could not find the correct signs.