TexasCHLforum.com

Hi,

I'm new to having a CHL, having received mine a few weeks ago. I apologize if this is a frequently discussed topic, this is the first place I could find where I might be able to get an answer.

My understanding from my class is that places of business (and thus, neither a school nor a government office) can only restrict us from how we carry under well-defined, clear circumstances: 1) being a TABC 51% (bar), or 2) posting a correct clear 30.06 notice.

A large gun shop with a range near me has a sign posted on their door, "All firearms must be unloaded except on range." Does this apply to CHL-holders, legally? I was shopping at one tonight, and a gun shop employee started giving me a hard time because mine was loaded. I didn't argue, both because I expected him to be more familiar with the topic than I am, and because I can understand their position given how frequently weapons are handled in their store and their range safety tules. But while I understand that there are multiple dimensions to the question, my curiosity is just about the legal point. I'm not going to be aggressive about the point even if I'm legally in the right, but I do want to know whether my understanding of the law is correct.

Thanks,

- Will

The sign is not for CHL'ers as long as you keep it concealed. If you bring it out, showing it around, you are then violating their sign and can be asked to leave.

It is my understanding that unless they are posted 30.06, concealed is concealed. How will they know it is loaded unless you show them. Often we go to the range with another weapon and have one concealed as well. To me the "all guns unloaded" is a "gunbuster" sign.

JMPHO.

If he told you orally that's valid 30.06 notice.

I don't believe that orally qualifies under any of the 30.06 definitions that I encountered in my class. Maybe that's something that my class neglected.

[ ETA: OK, I see the oral subsection of 30.06 and how it works. Thanks.]

He saw it because I was shopping for an accessory and he asked whether I had the gun with me, and to see it to look for a fit. But that's also an area I'm also unclear on - the transition from concealed to unconcealed and back.

CHLNewbie wrote:I don't believe that orally qualifies under any of the 30.06 definitions that I encountered in my class. Maybe that's something that my class neglected.

He saw it because I was shopping for an accessory and he asked whether I had the gun with me, and to see it to look for a fit. But that's also an area I'm also unclear on - the transition from concealed to unconcealed and back.

You don't transition to unconcealed. Leave it concealed.
The only person who I would ever show my gun is someone intending me harm.
For that scenario, I'd tell him what model I need the accessory for and ask to try it on one of their store guns.

Divided Attention wrote:It is my understanding that unless they are posted 30.06, concealed is concealed. How will they know it is loaded unless you show them. Often we go to the range with another weapon and have one concealed as well. To me the "all guns unloaded" is a "gunbuster" sign.

JMPHO.

Thanks, that was my impression as well - that it was essentially a "gunbuster" sign. Like I said, I don't have any intention of being a jerk about it - I had never intended to pull it out (ETA: before being asked about it, that is).

Scott in Houston wrote:

CHLNewbie wrote:I don't believe that orally qualifies under any of the 30.06 definitions that I encountered in my class. Maybe that's something that my class neglected.

He saw it because I was shopping for an accessory and he asked whether I had the gun with me, and to see it to look for a fit. But that's also an area I'm also unclear on - the transition from concealed to unconcealed and back.

You don't transition to unconcealed. Leave it concealed.
The only person who I would ever show my gun is someone intending me harm.
For that scenario, I'd tell him what model I need the accessory for and ask to try it on one of their store guns.

Fair enough. Thanks, it's not a scenario I had really anticipated.

...my indoor range of choice has that sign...I sign in, get my target, go to the firing stall, then unload my chl weapon and load it with practice ammo and proceed...when done, reload it with ammo for the street and reholster it...walk out...nothing is said...they post the sign to keep the idiots from playing with their loaded guns and for insurance purposes...it's all about common sense and safety...

CHLNewbie wrote:

Fair enough. Thanks, it's not a scenario I had really anticipated.

I hear ya. You can't anticipate every scenario. So remember the mantra, "concealed means concealed."
Only un-conceal for bad guys and LEOs, period. Then ad-lib the rest. ;)

As other's have said, that sign is just for idiots that bring guns into the store loaded and play with them. Champions in College Station has a similar sign except that it includes another line something along the lines of "Concealed handguns must stay concealed."

Basically means you did fine right up till you pulled the gun out and showed it to him. Should have just told him the model and let him find a fit. If he's working in a gun store he should be able to tell you what you need.

CHLNewbie wrote:A large gun shop with a range near me has a sign posted on their door, "All firearms must be unloaded except on range." Does this apply to CHL-holders, legally?

I took my CHL class at a local range with gun shop, which has similar sign on its front door. I was told by the instructor that the sign doesn't legally apply to CHL holders. Just keep your gun concealed while in the shop area and you're find. (They also don't allow drawing from the holster on the range, so I would unholster the weapon and aim/shoot as two separate processes.)

speedsix wrote:...my indoor range of choice has that sign...I sign in, get my target, go to the firing stall, then unload my chl weapon and load it with practice ammo and proceed...when done, reload it with ammo for the street and reholster it...walk out...nothing is said...they post the sign to keep the idiots from playing with their loaded guns and for insurance purposes...it's all about common sense and safety...

Exactly what I do / have done with ranges all over the US.. When I travel one of my guns goes with me,, I always make time to find a range when I’m traveling and go shoot, even if it's only 30 min and 100 RDS. So when I go TDY, or travel for personal reasons, I’m shooting at a new range. Never been "talked to" or asked to leave.. Also never brought attention to myself or announced "I’m taking my concealed gun out NOW" kind of thing.
You act normal, and with the attitude what you’re doing is the most common and normal thing in the world, that’s the way you get treated. IMHO.

As for concealed to open view in a gun shop for the propose of trying an accessory on / for that gun.. Again done it many times and never been an issue..

Ask the employee, or been asked by the employee to present the gun….. get a clear acknowledgement of the intent to remove gun from holster, unload, clear, and show, or, hand gun to gun smith whatever.. Most times I do that by way of “hey, id like to try that holster, mage ct in my carry gun.. is there a place I can clear my weapon?” I’ve gotten everything from,, step behind the counter,, to go in to the range area, to, ya no problem, just don’t shoot anyone”

40khammer wrote:Basically means you did fine right up till you pulled the gun out and showed it to him. Should have just told him the model and let him find a fit. If he's working in a gun store he should be able to tell you what you need.

Hm. In addition to whatever else, he tried to to sell me a 9mm XD magazine to use in an XD(m), so my confidence was not high (I don't know that it wouldn't physically work, but I know that they're not the same cross-section and won't fit into each other's respective loaders, even though the XD magazine will slide into the XD(m)). Oh well, now it's something I will have thought through.

Thanks to everybody for your comments, I really appreciate them. I've only recently moved to Texas from the northeast, and am playing catch-up - just catching the right attitudes is a big part of it, so the "concealed is concealed, period" hint is a big help.

Same answer as speedsix. Other guns in range bag. My concealed carry stays concealed until on the line and even then I slip it out using body to block view. Unload Carry ammo and reload carry gun before leaving line.
I never allow anyone to view or handle the carry gun. Reason for not advertising a CHL is the next question is "what do you carry" and "can I see it". Most accidents happen from handling a gun too much. If its safe in holster its safe. Playing with it is not safe.

apostate wrote:If he told you orally that's valid 30.06 notice.

I have to disagree with this statement.
Saying that "all guns must be unloaded" is not 30.06.
As 30.06 says you cannot have a gun there, it does not say you can have an "unloaded gun" as the law does not specify loaded or unloaded.

Saying "all guns must be unloaded" to me, when I walk in a gun shop, is that any weapon that I am carrying concealed (not in a range bag, carrying case, etc) will remain concealed and I will take out my range gun(s) and he can do his due diligence to flag the weapon as empty.