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....hugging.

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I heard about this. The student says he didn't know about the policy.

This is an epidemic for schools in the Houston area. More common sense legislation like this banning not just hugs, but any personal interactions between students should be viewed as necessary and urgent. These kids should focus on learning to follow the rules regardless of the content of said rule. Big brother is strong in school now.

The real root reason is that the people who run the schools have no spines. They ban anything they think might give them some sort of backlash. They do this because they don't want to have to take a stand on why one thing is okay but another is not. Easier for them to simply ban EVERYTHING and cover their worthless behinds. Like I said, no spine. Disagree if you like, its how I see it.

Heartland Patriot wrote:The real root reason is that the people who run the schools have no spines. They ban anything they think might give them some sort of backlash. They do this because they don't want to have to take a stand on why one thing is okay but another is not. Easier for them to simply ban EVERYTHING and cover their worthless behinds while protecting their pensions. Like I said, no spine. Disagree if you like, its how I see it.

I hope you don't mind the addendum.

Schools have way to much power anymore...

Oldgringo wrote:

Heartland Patriot wrote:The real root reason is that the people who run the schools have no spines. They ban anything they think might give them some sort of backlash. They do this because they don't want to have to take a stand on why one thing is okay but another is not. Easier for them to simply ban EVERYTHING and cover their worthless behinds while protecting their pensions. Like I said, no spine. Disagree if you like, its how I see it.

I hope you don't mind the addendum.

...I believe the PARENTS are the ones who are spineless...when I was in school (shortly after paper was invented) the school board, principals, and teachers answered to the parents...and were very responsive...students knew that misbehavior would result in a 3-way conference and they'd come out on the short end of that...
...today, the "educators"(programmers) are high-handed and feel reasonably sure that parents couldn't care less, much less call or come up to the school to challenge them...and do what they please...the 5 or 6 times I showed up at the school over one or the other of my sons and a teacher or principal who was out of line actually surprised them...that I told them their "policies" were wrong and WOULD CHANGE rocked their world...and changed their policies...and I'm a nobody, non-important, no-politics kinda guy...I just stand up for my boys...and the way the "system" treats kids today in a lot of school districts NEEDS standing up against...the above is a good example...

speedsix wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

Heartland Patriot wrote:The real root reason is that the people who run the schools have no spines. They ban anything they think might give them some sort of backlash. They do this because they don't want to have to take a stand on why one thing is okay but another is not. Easier for them to simply ban EVERYTHING and cover their worthless behinds while protecting their pensions. Like I said, no spine. Disagree if you like, its how I see it.

I hope you don't mind the addendum.

...I believe the PARENTS are the ones who are spineless...when I was in school (shortly after paper was invented) the school board, principals, and teachers answered to the parents...and were very responsive...students knew that misbehavior would result in a 3-way conference and they'd come out on the short end of that...
...today, the "educators"(programmers) are high-handed and feel reasonably sure that parents couldn't care less, much less call or come up to the school to challenge them...and do what they please...the 5 or 6 times I showed up at the school over one or the other of my sons and a teacher or principal who was out of line actually surprised them...that I told them their "policies" were wrong and WOULD CHANGE rocked their world...and changed their policies...and I'm a nobody, non-important, no-politics kinda guy...I just stand up for my boys...and the way the "system" treats kids today in a lot of school districts NEEDS standing up against...the above is a good example...

I do not disagree with your observation. Like you, getting in trouble at school was just the beginning of my discomfort. Back in the my day, parents ruled the roost.

We're headin' over to B'ham Monday and Mrs. Oldgringo expects to have the two grandsons (age 9 & 12) in our 'lil RV overnight next weekend. I ain't lookin' forward to it.

...maybe there'll be a gunshow just far enough away that Holiday Inn makes sense...naw, never get away with that...

speedsix wrote: ...I believe the PARENTS are the ones who are spineless...when I was in school (shortly after paper was invented) the school board, principals, and teachers answered to the parents...and were very responsive...students knew that misbehavior would result in a 3-way conference and they'd come out on the short end of that...
...today, the "educators"(programmers) are high-handed and feel reasonably sure that parents couldn't care less, much less call or come up to the school to challenge them...and do what they please...the 5 or 6 times I showed up at the school over one or the other of my sons and a teacher or principal who was out of line actually surprised them...that I told them their "policies" were wrong and WOULD CHANGE rocked their world...and changed their policies...and I'm a nobody, non-important, no-politics kinda guy...I just stand up for my boys...and the way the "system" treats kids today in a lot of school districts NEEDS standing up against...the above is a good example...

YEs in general true, but ya never met my wife and I.

The School "keepers" and our family have had many significant interactions..
From when I got to TX after PCS’ing from my last duty and an administrator threatened my wife and son with legal proceedings for events that took place before were ever in the state of TX. (I was deploying right after I got to TX, we took my younger son out of school and spent 30 days on the road (11 days of which were not school days, so he missed 19 days of school), in 6 states between OR and TX riding every track and trail we could find.. Iraq was an ugly place then,,, chances were better than even at what I do, _______ could happen, so we decided as parents, quality family times was more important than a few days of missed school).

Right up to my sons Junior year in HS, when we took him and three friends to SixFlags for the weekend, after he got suspended from school…and missed the school sponsored Friday trip to Sixflags….

He heard a friend being harassed by three of the known school drugies, thugs .. She wanted away from them, they would not let her pass,, saying if she did not want to smoke out with them, she must be a snitch, and they would take care of her. …. That’s not how my son was raised, he weighed in, said no harm, no foul he and the friend were just gona walk away and get to class.. One said no, and threw a punch, She ran, he fought . And in the end, he got the bloody lip, and a nice bruise on the cheek.., One ran, one got a broken nose , cut lip, black eye, the other got a knee that will hurt a lot when he gets older. My son was detained by the school LEO, then released with no charges after a dozen witnesses came forward and told the tale.. School suspended him for fighting and not walking away from his friend, the thugs and calling a teacher to do something. Not how he was raised. Walk when you can, run if you need, fight when you have to, never quit….ever

We spoke to his friends parents, they gave permission, and we spent the weekend at six flags.. Not a reward for fighting, but for standing up, for another who could not.

We had Teachers that lost papers, and gave “Zeros” and said, just do as well on the next paper and it will average out.. Umm, no..
Teachers that called and said home work was missing.. and got full support from us… and one unhappy kid for a few weeks. .. Cuz the parent teacher thing goes both ways…
Public schools days for us have ended, and not a day too soon.
As it’s only getting worse.. I thank the teachers and administrators still trying to do it right.., but loath these in the other group.

Oldgringo wrote:

Heartland Patriot wrote:The real root reason is that the people who run the schools have no spines. They ban anything they think might give them some sort of backlash. They do this because they don't want to have to take a stand on why one thing is okay but another is not. Easier for them to simply ban EVERYTHING and cover their worthless behinds while protecting their pensions. Like I said, no spine. Disagree if you like, its how I see it.

I hope you don't mind the addendum.

I do NOT mind the addendum...my apologies for missing that...

speedsix wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

Heartland Patriot wrote:The real root reason is that the people who run the schools have no spines. They ban anything they think might give them some sort of backlash. They do this because they don't want to have to take a stand on why one thing is okay but another is not. Easier for them to simply ban EVERYTHING and cover their worthless behinds while protecting their pensions. Like I said, no spine. Disagree if you like, its how I see it.

I hope you don't mind the addendum.

...I believe the PARENTS are the ones who are spineless...when I was in school (shortly after paper was invented) the school board, principals, and teachers answered to the parents...and were very responsive...students knew that misbehavior would result in a 3-way conference and they'd come out on the short end of that...
...today, the "educators"(programmers) are high-handed and feel reasonably sure that parents couldn't care less, much less call or come up to the school to challenge them...and do what they please...the 5 or 6 times I showed up at the school over one or the other of my sons and a teacher or principal who was out of line actually surprised them...that I told them their "policies" were wrong and WOULD CHANGE rocked their world...and changed their policies...and I'm a nobody, non-important, no-politics kinda guy...I just stand up for my boys...and the way the "system" treats kids today in a lot of school districts NEEDS standing up against...the above is a good example...

IF we were talking about a "small-town" school situation, I would agree with you that simple parent interaction could make a difference. However, in the past couple of decades, they have consolidated more and more schools into "mega-schools". The officials in these mega-schools don't care one bit what one or two parents have to say. AND, if you go to give them even the slightest bit of grief about anything at all that doesn't fit with the "modern" (read: liberal) educational model, you will either be 1. Ignored or 2. Stone-walled with bureaucracy...and 3. NEVER get upset, or you WILL be threatened with law-enforcement, who WILL side with the school district as they are an "official entity" and not some mere peasant like you are...IF a lot of parents banded together, they MIGHT accomplish something, but trying to get more than a few parents together on anything is nigh-on impossible...so many just believe that whatever the fine "educators" say is made out of gold because they are "wise and learn-ed", so why should they make waves? IF that is what you meant by parents being spineless, THEN I will agree with you. Sorry for my attitude, but I was stationed in California for a decade all total between two assignments, and unfortunately my kids education suffered enormously due to that...its a sore subject, and I hope you can understand my irritation.

bronco78 wrote:

speedsix wrote: ...I believe the PARENTS are the ones who are spineless...when I was in school (shortly after paper was invented) the school board, principals, and teachers answered to the parents...and were very responsive...students knew that misbehavior would result in a 3-way conference and they'd come out on the short end of that...
...today, the "educators"(programmers) are high-handed and feel reasonably sure that parents couldn't care less, much less call or come up to the school to challenge them...and do what they please...the 5 or 6 times I showed up at the school over one or the other of my sons and a teacher or principal who was out of line actually surprised them...that I told them their "policies" were wrong and WOULD CHANGE rocked their world...and changed their policies...and I'm a nobody, non-important, no-politics kinda guy...I just stand up for my boys...and the way the "system" treats kids today in a lot of school districts NEEDS standing up against...the above is a good example...

YEs in general true, but ya never met my wife and I.

The School "keepers" and our family have had many significant interactions..
From when I got to TX after PCS’ing from my last duty and an administrator threatened my wife and son with legal proceedings for events that took place before were ever in the state of TX. (I was deploying right after I got to TX, we took my younger son out of school and spent 30 days on the road (11 days of which were not school days, so he missed 19 days of school), in 6 states between OR and TX riding every track and trail we could find.. Iraq was an ugly place then,,, chances were better than even at what I do, _______ could happen, so we decided as parents, quality family times was more important than a few days of missed school).

Right up to my sons Junior year in HS, when we took him and three friends to SixFlags for the weekend, after he got suspended from school…and missed the school sponsored Friday trip to Sixflags….

He heard a friend being harassed by three of the known school drugies, thugs .. She wanted away from them, they would not let her pass,, saying if she did not want to smoke out with them, she must be a snitch, and they would take care of her. …. That’s not how my son was raised, he weighed in, said no harm, no foul he and the friend were just gona walk away and get to class.. One said no, and threw a punch, She ran, he fought . And in the end, he got the bloody lip, and a nice bruise on the cheek.., One ran, one got a broken nose , cut lip, black eye, the other got a knee that will hurt a lot when he gets older. My son was detained by the school LEO, then released with no charges after a dozen witnesses came forward and told the tale.. School suspended him for fighting and not walking away from his friend, the thugs and calling a teacher to do something. Not how he was raised. Walk when you can, run if you need, fight when you have to, never quit….ever

We spoke to his friends parents, they gave permission, and we spent the weekend at six flags.. Not a reward for fighting, but for standing up, for another who could not.

We had Teachers that lost papers, and gave “Zeros” and said, just do as well on the next paper and it will average out.. Umm, no..
Teachers that called and said home work was missing.. and got full support from us… and one unhappy kid for a few weeks. .. Cuz the parent teacher thing goes both ways…
Public schools days for us have ended, and not a day too soon.
As it’s only getting worse.. I thank the teachers and administrators still trying to do it right.., but loath these in the other group.

...I don't think they'd describe my interventions as interactions...maybe incidents...more likely battles...never got loud or threatening, just told them what was wrong and that they would make it right...no matter what it took...and they did...to see backbone and determination shakes them up...they USED to teach those qualities...I loved all my elementary teachers and respected most of the higher grade teachers...have met one in the last ten years that I could respect...times have changed ...

speedsix wrote:...when I was in school (shortly after paper was invented)...

That was slightly before my time. I started high school just after the invention of the fountain pen.

And I gotta say that this new era of educator-as-bureaucrat, not teacher and mentor, ain't workin' out real well. I think it raises a big question-mark about the future of our country.

Now, I don't want to make an over-generalization. There are many teachers out there in the system who really do teach, whose life-calling is doing so and who dedicate their lives to it. And God bless 'em. But the vast public school systems certainly seem to no longer encourage those kinds of true teachers and mentors: it rewards neither teachers nor students who think for themselves. But doin' it "by the book" doesn't seem to be teaching our kids as much as it should.

The Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) is generally considered to be the most comprehensive comparison of its kind showing how students in different countries/economies are performing. It tests 15-year-olds only, and the results come out every three years. The latest results were released in December 2010 from 2009 tests. In 2009, over 470,000 students in 65 countries took the tests. The tests focus on how well students are able to apply knowledge in math, reading, and science to real-life problems.

The U.S. made some very small gains over the 2003 and 2006 numbers, but that upward trend isn't strong, and for a while now, our country's students haven't been able to display the educational achievements they should in order to keep this the leading world economy. Some example stats:

• In the 34 OECD countries tested in the 2009 PISA data, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science, and 25th in math.
• That puts us slightly above average in reading, exactly mediocre in science, and dismal in math.
• Outperforming U.S. students in all areas were students from Shanghai, South Korea, Finland, Hong Kong, Singapore, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, Australia, and others.
• Shanghai was the top overall performer in the 2009 tests. In reading, they scored 556 points compared to the U.S.'s 500; in math, 600 points compared to the U.S.'s 487.
• Between 1995 and 2008 the U.S. slipped from ranking 2nd in college graduation rates to 13th.
• Of the 34 OECD countries, only 8 have lower high school graduation rates than the U.S.
• Of the 34 OECD countries in the 2009 results, only Luxembourg's educational system costs more per student than the U.S.'s.
• Estonia and Poland performed at equivalent averages to the U.S., yet spend less than half what the U.S. does on a per-student basis.

In talking about the 2009 PISA results, I think OECD Secretary-General Angel Gurria kinda nailed it when, in describing why the top-performing countries did so well when compared to mediocre and lower-performing countries, he said: "They don't only produce children who know the matters by heart. They're educated to understand and face the challenges of real life.... That speaks about who is going to be leading tomorrow."

I think he's right.

Back around the time the fountain pen was invented the focus was to teach students how to think, how to reason, and how to study. In short, we were taught how to learn...not just how to memorize. The old "teach a man to fish" parable.

From what I've seen--and I'll admit that my firsthand experience is limited: I don't have any children in the current educational system--the system has become more bureaucratic than educational, concerned more with administrivia than teaching. It seems like the perfect student is expected to be one who doesn't think for himself, follows instructions without question, and can pass standardized tests with the least amount of actual effort on the part of the educational institution.

Admittedly, the public school system faces a rapidly growing alien population. I would say "minority" population, but the U.S. Census estimates the Latino "minority" will comprise more than half of the U.S. population in less than 40 years, so to me it's hard to say "minority" any longer: they're either Americans if here legally, or illegal aliens if not.

Unfortunately, the public school system hasn't figured out how to handle the influx of non-English-speaking, low-income, illegal aliens. Right now, the schools are trying to assimilate them but aren't doing it well, and as a result the average levels of achievement are being pulled down.

Gifted students in secondary public schools are, I think, finding it difficult to find things that challenge them, that allow them to grow. That's because most of the time and money and resources in the system are being expended trying to push the middle-of-the-bell-curve mass along like a cohesive clump toward the standardized tests that will allow them to move up to the next grade level.

Private schools and home schooling can't be the sole answer. Somehow, we have to figure out how public schools can get back to growing minds and leaders, not just producing barely-graduates who are ill-prepared for competitive university experiences and even more competitive workplace environments.

/rant off