TexasCHLforum.com

I saw this sign posted at Austin High School today.

It says "property" not "premises".

It's little hard to read but that is a 46. Penal Code Chapter 46.

I assume this sign has no legal merit? Legal to carry in car, but not into school building.

Not valid.

I would say that you are correct that it has no legal merit since Texas has full preemption, but we are talking about Austin here. I'm sure you would beat the rap as long as you did not enter any buildings, but it might be a long ride.

It's more of a reminder sign than anything, because we're not allowed to carry on school grounds, sign or not. Key word: carry. Exclude car.

nyj wrote:It's more of a reminder sign than anything, because we're not allowed to carry on school grounds, sign or not. Key word: carry. Exclude car.

hhhmmmmm.... can't find the popcorn imoticon

nyj wrote:because we're not allowed to carry on school grounds, sign or not. Key word: carry. Exclude car.

I believe the law is we cannot carry in school buildings, sporting events, etc, but on the grounds themselves, I can exit my vehicle, on school property, with my Springfield XD9sc in my Crossbreed Holster and walk around, up to the point of entering buildings, etc.

nyj wrote:It's more of a reminder sign than anything, because we're not allowed to carry on school grounds, sign or not. Key word: carry. Exclude car.

Since when? Might want to brush up, CHL can carry on school grounds all they want. Not in the buildings though.

rm9792 wrote:

nyj wrote:It's more of a reminder sign than anything, because we're not allowed to carry on school grounds, sign or not. Key word: carry. Exclude car.

Since when? Might want to brush up, CHL can carry on school grounds all they want. Not in the buildings though.

Why don't you go ahead and carry on a school playground then. Poorly defined laws make it best to keep things in your vehicle, IMO.

I have. I have also carried all over Alvin high School. The law is very clear. Playgrounds are by no means "premises". This part was not poorly written like some others and is not gray. Your opinion can get you killed in some of the Houston school grounds or your firearm stolen from your vehicle.

nyj wrote:Why don't you go ahead and carry on a school playground then. Poorly defined laws make it best to keep things in your vehicle, IMO.

Unless they're a school employee, I don't see how in/out of a vehicle makes the least bit of difference to someone with a CHL.

nyj wrote:

rm9792 wrote:

nyj wrote:It's more of a reminder sign than anything, because we're not allowed to carry on school grounds, sign or not. Key word: carry. Exclude car.

Since when? Might want to brush up, CHL can carry on school grounds all they want. Not in the buildings though.

Why don't you go ahead and carry on a school playground then. Poorly defined laws make it best to keep things in your vehicle, IMO.

Don't sound poorly defined to me. Law says (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

At Elementary, Middle and high schools I have carried all over the "grounds"/"property" but never in the "Premises"

I have even carried in-between buildings at the high school (where a rattlesnake was found) there was a sidewalk or walkway there between the buildings, so I was specifically ok under the law. in my layman's opinion of the plain language of the Statute.

The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Playgrounds? I'd absolutely (and have) carry to protect the children in my family. If rattlesnakes get in the school kitchen (where you can't carry, so you'd use a broom/mop etc), and between buildings, they can go on the playgrounds.

(I'm not saying I'd shoot all snakes, whether legless, 2-legged or 4-legged and of course one displaying or discharging a firearm on school "property" might bring a quick response from Police and enhancement charges to have to deal with whether necessity is a defense of any original charge AND THE PENALTY ENHANCEMENT...but prepared is better than not if a life n death situation arose, so yes I carry where allowed by Statute. )

AustinBoy wrote:I saw this sign posted at Austin High School today.

It says "property" not "premises".

It's little hard to read but that is a 46. Penal Code Chapter 46.

I assume this sign has no legal merit? Legal to carry in car, but not into school building.

My critique of the sign itself:

No weapons?
And ... Objection: "etc" is vague, ambiguous and overly broad.

So, I suppose they disallow gasoline, rat-tailed combs, hair brushes, flashlights, pencils, pens, rulers, scissors .... a bag of flour, ...shoes with pointy-toes ... belt buckles ...belts ... shoe laces ...keys...toothbrushes ...flammable sprays such as hair spray/breath spray ...

Socks in which rocks or batteries could be put ....
===========================

One interesting thing to note about the list on the bottom of their sign (disregarding the overly broad "etc") is it only lists/forbids an "illegal knife" but not other knives.

Penal code 46
(6) "Illegal knife" means a:

(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;

(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;

(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;

(D) bowie knife;

(E) sword; or

(F) spear.

(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument.

============================================

My overall grade of the school sign?


Fail

I am in a time tight this morn but will try to clarify a little here.

Premises IS a building or portion of a building.

On the grounds issue, how I teach it in my classes:
If you are on school grounds & school not open, Sat or late afternoon & nothing school sponcered taking place, your kids are playing on the grounds you are OK armed. I am in Angelena Co. Very CHL friendly area.

As stated above, Austin may be a long expensive place to prove it. Those that are on the cutting edge of law usually bleed to death financially. (Charles Cotton) If you have the $$$$$s go be the test case. Remember during all this long drawn out time you will NOT have a CHL. It will be suspended until the final disposition of the case & you are found not guilty. (If that is the verdict.) For that whole time you are unarmed EVERYWHERE. That is the issue w/ me about being a test case if I had a free lawyer that was wanting to prove the point himself.

If there is ANY school sponcered ANYTHING taking place on the grounds anywhere:
Band practice, cheerleader, track,......... anything that is school sponcered or extra corricular you are on pretty thin ice if you are armed on the grounds any where, remaining, playing w/ your kids. Ok picking them up & walking out to holler at them in a chase game or playing & get them to pick up & leave. Playing, staying, watching them when something is school sponcered event on the grounds is a NO.

If you go over & watch the event & make yourself part of it as a spectator even on the grounds outside the buildings you are in violation.

This is my understanding & interpretation. I am not a "sissy, only carry at the local monthly CHL chapter meeting of the good guys", BUT I assure everyone that I have no interest in being the test case & going unarmed outside my vehicle for X# of months or maybe couple of yrs.

Strictly my oppinion & observation over my yrs of carry & not to even suggest anyone posting in this thread is referred to

For all New to Carry that are seeking info & learning. I have found that "In the gray areas" many w/ a CHL are a lot bolder on the board in print than they are on the street, school grounds neighbors house......

Other instructor are welcome to chime in here.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetForms/Forms/CHL-16.pdf wrote: PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;
.......................
(c) In this section:
(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.
...............
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Re: Playground...
THIS IS MY OPINION... NOT LEGAL ADVICE...
An empty school playground or a playground being visited after all school-sponsored activities are finished... OK to carry.
A school playground during "recess" or during the time of any other school-sponsored activity... NOT ok to carry.

IMO, IANAL