TexasCHLforum.com

Does anyone have a suggestion for a combat simulator? I'm talking about those that use lasers, video shoot/no shoot scenarios. I'd like to investigate the possibility of getting one at PSC.

Thanks,
Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Does anyone have a suggestion for a combat simulator? I'm talking about those that use lasers, video shoot/no shoot scenarios. I'd like to investigate the possibility of getting one at PSC.

Thanks,
Chas.

I suspect with the proper knowledge that is something that could be built from scratch much easier than bought. It would need limited supplies (a projector, kinect sensor, desktop computer) and with many of the gaming engines being available for download, the scenarios could be programed into the computer. I have had ideas of using LED diodes from a Wiimote integrated with a pistol or rifle replica that would act as the gun and the kinect sensor would act as the control with the wii sensor bar

We have one, but I don't remember the name. I'll dig it up and follow up. It's great training aid - I'm a huge fan.

This would be a great tool to have at PSC, and I would love to use it.
the issue then is strictly scheduling, as everyone is going to want to use it!

I saw this on KHOU this morning about the simulator at Gander Moutain.
...
They may be a good location to contact about the technology

Tactical Firearms in Katy, TX has one and its pretty cool. I have seen it but not used it.

The Mad Moderate wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Does anyone have a suggestion for a combat simulator? I'm talking about those that use lasers, video shoot/no shoot scenarios. I'd like to investigate the possibility of getting one at PSC.

Thanks,
Chas.

I suspect with the proper knowledge that is something that could be built from scratch much easier than bought. It would need limited supplies (a projector, kinect sensor, desktop computer) and with many of the gaming engines being available for download, the scenarios could be programed into the computer. I have had ideas of using LED diodes from a Wiimote integrated with a pistol or rifle replica that would act as the gun and the kinect sensor would act as the control with the wii sensor bar

You definitely have my attention. Is the Kinect Sensor sufficiently precise to give a reasonable hit location?

Chas.

My preference is for the Lasershot firearms simulators. They make them for police and military use, but also have a very inexpensive one for home game use (no combat simulations though). And they are made in the Houston area.

For teaching basic firearms use, F.A.T.S. has one very significant advantage though. They have pistols that are linked by bluetooth to the computer so the operator can force a jam to teach how to clear unexpected malfunctions. They also have the laser tracked by the computer all the time so you can view the muzzle wobble later, with the trigger squeeze delineated. It makes it easier to show a new user what they are doing as they sight in and squeeze/jerk the trigger.

I think either one will go for about $75,000. Both also make livefire simulators that will allow firearm use against the screen. A very cool technology for training.

There are about 6 or 8 police simulators on the market. The only one I dislike the company on is the AIS/prism simulator. It is a good simulator but I had some differences of opinion with their marketing people when trying to get one repaired. they wanted to sell a new system instead of helping us repair ours (at TABC). Admitting ours was old and possibly obsolete, I think the options offered could have been better. One of the neat features of their simulator is that the pistols use a compressed air 9mm cartridge and actually function including ejecting the "spent" round. The downside of this is the casing being stepped on during the simulation and crushed, replacement is expensive.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

The Mad Moderate wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Does anyone have a suggestion for a combat simulator? I'm talking about those that use lasers, video shoot/no shoot scenarios. I'd like to investigate the possibility of getting one at PSC.

Thanks,
Chas.

I suspect with the proper knowledge that is something that could be built from scratch much easier than bought. It would need limited supplies (a projector, kinect sensor, desktop computer) and with many of the gaming engines being available for download, the scenarios could be programed into the computer. I have had ideas of using LED diodes from a Wiimote integrated with a pistol or rifle replica that would act as the gun and the kinect sensor would act as the control with the wii sensor bar

You definitely have my attention. Is the Kinect Sensor sufficiently precise to give a reasonable hit location?

Chas.

Charles, as a person who has programmed and studied the Wii and Xbox devices, I can tell you that going down that path is a bag of hurt, not to mention wasted money. Please don't force me to write a really long post that states all the reasons why . Suffice to say: There's a good reason you don't see it used by trainers.

OldCannon wrote: Charles, as a person who has programmed and studied the Wii and Xbox devices, I can tell you that going down that path is a bag of hurt, not to mention wasted money. Please don't force me to write a really long post that states all the reasons why . Suffice to say: There's a good reason you don't see it used by trainers.

I'd echo this for the kinect sensor specifically - it's decent at detecting movements of a wireframe of a human form, but nowhere near accurate enough to detect exact aim angles and hit placement. I'm sure the same applies to the wii sensors.

Another thing to consider. Firearms training simulators are only as good as the operator running the machine. I've shot F.A.T.S. several times and the imagination and training of the operator makes the difference between playing a video game on steroids and getting realistic and meaningful training.

I've never used one of these in a professional capacity, but I did see a few at a simulation-oriented conference that I went to for work a while back. They're becoming more and more common, since they represent a long-term cost savings for military and law-enforcement; for example, I think the Coast Guard Academy uses a simulator for all of their qualifications now.

I got to play with a couple at that conference - I'll see if I can go back through the vendor listings and come up with a few names.

Thanks for the information folks. I was afraid the systems would be in the $75,000 range as we couldn't justify that expense for the relatively small percentage of Members who would use the system. I was hoping I was wrong on the price.
Chas.

I don't know of any less expensive ones Charles, but there is one way you might be able to justify it. You could, as an organization, apply for a grant from the Dept. of Justice. They have lots of money available for police training. I know that only a few of your users would use it, but if you worked out a program to lend the system to some of the smaller local police departments you might be eligible for the grant. It is hard for any oen small department to justify the cost also, so this could be a win-win situation.

While it does not do combat simulations, the marksmanship training available on the Lasershot home theater system could help any beginner classes, especially youth classes. They have youth sized laser rifles and shotguns available as well as pistols and an archery simulator. That one costs a lot less, like only $3000 or 4000 after you include a wide assortment of firearms.

I went through a shoot/no-shoot simulator using Glocks, AR-15s, and 870s a couple or four years ago at the Victoria PD. They rented the equipment for a couple weeks for all their patrol officers to go thru, and some citizens got the chance to go thru it on the weekend. It had a number of scenarios, like school shooter, bank robbery, some guys in parking lot that get violent, etc. It was pretty interesting, and afterwords could replay the scenario so you could see where your shots actually landed, depicted by red dots.

So if you can't afford one flat out, see if you can find the companies that rent them to smaller PDs. Maybe you can work a deal to have one at your place once or twice a year when they make a swing thru the Texas PDs.