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In McAllen, TX

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One of the robbers then shot Perez in the chest with a shotgun, prompting Perez to retrieve a .380-caliber handgun he keeps under the counter and return fire.

Wow! Shot in the chest with a shotgun, then treated for "non-life threatening" injuries? Was he wearing armor?

...maybe his attacker was one of those enlightened souls who believe that "all it takes is a good load of squirrel shot" to stop someone...

speedsix wrote:...maybe his attacker was one of those enlightened souls who believe that "all it takes is a good load of squirrel shot" to stop someone...

Yep, I'm guessing bird shot. . . possibly stolen or a providentially ignorant BG trying to save some money?

Glad the GG is OK.

That is why you use buckshot instead of birdshot.

...at what range? An ounce of #8 is still an ounce of lead if it hasn't had time/distance to open up.

/throws bogus card...

birdshot will totally mess someone up bad. Assuming you make a wax slug out of it first of course.

I have a friend who was shot in the side of the face and upper shoulder with bird shot from about 12-15 feet in an attempted carjacking/abduction. Luckily none of it hit her in the eye. The deepest an of the shot went was about 1/2 an inch. She did suffer some nerve damage in her face, but nothing actually life threatening. Even thirty years later she periodically will have a pellet come to the surface of her skin.

Oldgringo wrote:...at what range? An ounce of #8 is still an ounce of lead if it hasn't had time/distance to open up.

/throws bogus card...

...penetration, penetration, penetration...

speedsix wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:...at what range? An ounce of #8 is still an ounce of lead if it hasn't had time/distance to open up.

/throws bogus card...

...penetration, penetration, penetration...

...shot string, shot string, shot string...an ounce of #8 shot from a shotgun is an ounce of lead...
OTOH, a few pellets of #12 shot from a .22 is a much lesser matter, don't you think?

This smacks of the inadequacy of the 9mm parabellum argument. Where are the volunteers who will stand before either a shotgun load of birdshot (#?) or a 9mm parabellum to prove their arguments, huh? Let's do it on YouTube, if you please.

...rather than be on stupid TV, I'll just remind you that we were discussing birdshot vs. buckshot...not pistol bullets...if you don't reach the heart, you don't stop the heart...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JeepGuy79 wrote:birdshot will totally mess someone up bad. Assuming you make a wax slug out of it first of course.

I once saw a patient whose foot had been nearly completely amputated at the ankle by a blast of 12 gauge bird shot fired at nearly contact distance. His foot was still attached by just a bit a skin and connective tissue. It was close enough that he had powder tatooing around the periphery of the wound. He was shot in the back seat of a car by a rival gang member who stuck his shotgun through the window. The victim was laying low in the back seat, trying to hide from his assailant, and the shooter thought he was getting the head end, not the foot end. Lucky for the victim. His homies drove him straight to the hospital, where we got him out of the back seat and onto a gurney. There was blood everywhere. He was missing several inches of bone, of which I found several large pieces on the back seat. I bottled them up and brought them inside, just in case they could be sterilized and used in a bone graft.

...at that range, it does a terrific amount of damage...I've seen a person who'd taken a load of heavy load 6's from a 16 gauge from 4-5 feet away...a chunk of his skull was rocking on the floor and brains were literally dripping off the ceiling...it's not that the POWER is not in a load of shot...it's that it dissipates quickly and doesn't drive the small shot anywhere deeply enough for reliably stopping a threat...unless, of course, you're really close...I have a friend who took a shot of 16-ga. heavy load 6s fired by a clowning friend across a bed...it chewed up his guts and put him in a wheelchair...but didn't kill him...Jerry lived 40 years after being gutshot at 8' or less...

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Annoyed Man wrote:

JeepGuy79 wrote:birdshot will totally mess someone up bad. Assuming you make a wax slug out of it first of course.

I once saw a patient whose foot had been nearly completely amputated at the ankle by a blast of 12 gauge bird shot fired at nearly contact distance. His foot was still attached by just a bit a skin and connective tissue. It was close enough that he had powder tatooing around the periphery of the wound. He was shot in the back seat of a car by a rival gang member who stuck his shotgun through the window. The victim was laying low in the back seat, trying to hide from his assailant, and the shooter thought he was getting the head end, not the foot end. Lucky for the victim. His homies drove him straight to the hospital, where we got him out of the back seat and onto a gurney. There was blood everywhere. He was missing several inches of bone, of which I found several large pieces on the back seat. I bottled them up and brought them inside, just in case they could be sterilized and used in a bone graft.

You sound like a man who was dedicated to his job...saving his life and fixing the guy up is one thing...but looking for his bone chunks in the back of a car? I think that qualifies as "above and beyond the call of duty"...

In regards to the shotgun wound, though, could it have been a case of the BLAST having an effect because it was so close? That is, so much of the kinetic energy being there coupled with the heat and moving mass of burned powder and air column right out of the barrel...

...you oughta see the wall displays in his mancave...

Heartland Patriot wrote:In regards to the shotgun wound, though, could it have been a case of the BLAST having an effect because it was so close? That is, so much of the kinetic energy being there coupled with the heat and moving mass of burned powder and air column right out of the barrel...

Oh, I think you're right. What speedsix said about his friend getting gutshot from 8' and surviving it is definitely possible with bird shot. I would equate it to being shot with a frangible bullet. Wide wounds with massive tissue damage, but not very deep unless fired from muzzle contact distance. I saw someone shot in the calf from several feet away with buckshot and it tore a large part of his calf muscle clean off. I also saw a young man who had been executed (although it took him the better part of 30-40 minutes to die) by being forced to kneel while his killer placed the muzzle of a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot against the base of his neck and fired. The charge vaporized about 3 or 4 inches of his spine and blew downward into his chest cavity. We did an emergency sternotomy on him to try and get him restarted, and we found the plastic wad resting against his diaphragm. The hard part was listening to him shout before we got him into the OR and put him under, "They've killed me. Oh God, please don't let me die!" He begged to live, and he died anyway. He was 20 years old. There is much about that time that I do not remember very fondly.

A shotgun is a terrifying weapon.