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I don't think they were "questionable" at all: they were flatly illegal.


http://bob.wjla.com/headlines/0207/395792.html

NYC Gun Stings Questionable, Feds Say
UPDATED - Friday February 09, 2007 12:38am

NEW YORK (AP) - Private investigators hired by the city to conduct sting operations on out-of-state gun shops could be breaking the law, and the dealers they caught making illegal sales will not be prosecuted, federal officials said Thursday. City officials have sued more than two dozen dealers after hiring investigators to pose as buyers attempting straw purchases, in which one person fills out the paperwork for the gun but is buying for someone else. The scam is often used by convicted felons and others barred from owning firearms.

The city argues that the shops - in Georgia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Virginia - are responsible for many of the illegal weapons that end up in New York, and the suits have led seven dealers to agree to more scrutiny.

The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives announced in May it was reviewing whether the city acted legally.

"Potential legal liabilities" arise when civilians do the work of law enforcers, Department of Justice spokesman Bryan Sierra said Thursday. The department has decided charges are not warranted against dealers in the sting cases, he said.

It was unclear whether the private investigators could face charges.

Deputy Mayor Ed Skyler dismissed the department's suggestion that investigators could be breaking the law.

"When illegal guns are sold in our city, that's putting people at great physical risk, and that's more important," he said Thursday. "The city has followed the law, and there's no reason we shouldn't continue to do these operations."

Some of the gun sellers have asked a judge to dismiss the lawsuits, saying the city is out of bounds because the dealers are not doing business in New York.

Gun rights advocates have criticized the sting operations, and the Second Amendment Foundation issued a statement Thursday calling the Department of Justice's findings a "significant victory."

"When illegal guns are sold in our city, that's putting people at great physical risk, and that's more important,"

So does that mean the ends justify the means. Using that arguement there are then a great number of innocent people in prison.

Does anyone else mentally cringe every time they hear the term, "Illegal Gun"? It makes me think that someone's selling big bore rifles, or other destructive devices, or other NFA weapons without a tax stamp or something.

Every time I hear the term, I want to politely remind the speaker what the 2nd amendment says...

KBCraig wrote:I don't think they were "questionable" at all: they were flatly illegal.


http://bob.wjla.com/headlines/0207/395792.html

...

"When illegal guns are sold in our city, that's putting people at great physical risk, and that's more important," he said Thursday. "The city has followed the law, and there's no reason we shouldn't continue to do these operations."

...

Some thoughts on this article & Bloomy's "investigation" of the dealers:

1) The guns aren't illegal. They are street legal firearms available to the people of this country (outside of NY, IL or a couple other locations). The purchasers appear to have been. Based on what info has been made available so far, it appears that t he investigators misrepresented (that is LIED) on the form 4473 that they filled out for these straw purchases.

2) The city did NOT follow the law. They hired people to straw purchase (that means LIE on the BATFE form 4473). This is a felony, isn't it? The last time I checked, the private investigators hired by the City of New York don't have authority to commit Federal felonies during an investigation outside the boundaries of NYC. I don't know that they have the charge to do it INSIDE the bounds of NYC either, but that's a question best directed to our LEO members.

3) How could the dealers have known that the investigators were illegal? The purchases appeared to be legal purchases to the dealers. The investigators LIED about who was the actual purchaser, or about their state of residence or both. There was no indication that they were attempting to buy guns under false premises or the dealers would certainly have prevented the sales.

BATFE investigations as well as various studies conducted over the years indicate that <1% of firearms used in crime are from gun dealers. A further <1% of firearms used in crime are from gun show sales. The HUGE majority of firearms used in crimes are purchased illegally off the street from other criminals or stolen from legitimate owners.

This action by Bloomy was purely an effort to appear to be doing something to his constituents because all the facts show that what they have done in NYC and NY generally is not helping reduce the level of criminal activity using firearms in their state/city. They have spent so much time convincing their sheeple that the solution is to make guns illegal, and actually all that does (as we all know) is to take away the option of self-defense from many of the people of New York.

The only thing I can add is that I hope Bloomy & his investigators ALL get to face Federal felony charges over this.

nitrogen wrote:Does anyone else mentally cringe every time they hear the term, "Illegal Gun"?

I also cringe when I hear "Mayor Bloomberg."

Skiprr wrote:

nitrogen wrote:Does anyone else mentally cringe every time they hear the term, "Illegal Gun"?

I also cringe when I hear "Mayor Bloomberg."

You too!

And to think Rudy's (Bloomberg's buddy) is rumored to be cut from the same mold...

I pretty much cringe at any politician from NY or NYC running for any national office...But thats just me...

[quote="Mithras61

The only thing I can add is that I hope Bloomy & his investigators ALL get to face Federal felony charges over this.[/quote]

Me too. & the great thing is the BATF is not their political buddies. The may want to make an example out of them to show all politicians.

Mithras61 wrote:

KBCraig wrote:I don't think they were "questionable" at all: they were flatly illegal.


http://bob.wjla.com/headlines/0207/395792.html

...

"When illegal guns are sold in our city, that's putting people at great physical risk, and that's more important," he said Thursday. "The city has followed the law, and there's no reason we shouldn't continue to do these operations."

...

Some thoughts on this article & Bloomy's "investigation" of the dealers:

1) The guns aren't illegal. They are street legal firearms available to the people of this country (outside of NY, IL or a couple other locations). The purchasers appear to have been. Based on what info has been made available so far, it appears that t he investigators misrepresented (that is LIED) on the form 4473 that they filled out for these straw purchases.

2) The city did NOT follow the law. They hired people to straw purchase (that means LIE on the BATFE form 4473). This is a felony, isn't it? The last time I checked, the private investigators hired by the City of New York don't have authority to commit Federal felonies during an investigation outside the boundaries of NYC. I don't know that they have the charge to do it INSIDE the bounds of NYC either, but that's a question best directed to our LEO members.

3) How could the dealers have known that the investigators were illegal? The purchases appeared to be legal purchases to the dealers. The investigators LIED about who was the actual purchaser, or about their state of residence or both. There was no indication that they were attempting to buy guns under false premises or the dealers would certainly have prevented the sales.

BATFE investigations as well as various studies conducted over the years indicate that <1% of firearms used in crime are from gun dealers. A further <1% of firearms used in crime are from gun show sales. The HUGE majority of firearms used in crimes are purchased illegally off the street from other criminals or stolen from legitimate owners.

This action by Bloomy was purely an effort to appear to be doing something to his constituents because all the facts show that what they have done in NYC and NY generally is not helping reduce the level of criminal activity using firearms in their state/city. They have spent so much time convincing their sheeple that the solution is to make guns illegal, and actually all that does (as we all know) is to take away the option of self-defense from many of the people of New York.

The only thing I can add is that I hope Bloomy & his investigators ALL get to face Federal felony charges over this.

I think I see many felony charges over teh straight up straw purchases. They were not LEO, and it was not a LEO authorized sting.

In fact, I see it as fraud, extortion, and blackmail. Since it was an organized crime across state lines, it could probably also fall under the RICO act. .......jmo