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Looking for opinions here....

My company is picking up a contract to transport persons with intellectual disabilities to and from DFW Airport. The contract states that our drivers will need to take them TO (but not through) the security checkpoint at which time we will turn them over to security and DFW's disabilities caretakers. Now, I've carried in DFW (unsecured areas, of course) w/ no problems many, many times. I've even had CHL discussions w/ several officers while there (great guys, very supportive of CHL holders). But I've never had to approach the security checkpoint. Do you think there will be any issues w/ carrying to (but again not through) the checkpoint? I just don't want our drivers having any issues w/ the TSA or Airport Security.

If this is your company remember you may be libel for any issues that arise from an armed driver.
This is why many employers prohibit firearms in the work place. Not because their anti CHL but afraid of legal problems.
If you are the driver for another company a quick call to TSA could help with that. I do not remember seeing
30.06 signs other than at the check points. I weekly ship animals from the cargo area and their are none there.

Without chaecking with TSA I don't think carrying at an airport (passenger areas) is wise. Jusy my opinion.

RottenApple wrote:Looking for opinions here....

My company is picking up a contract to transport persons with intellectual disabilities to and from DFW Airport. The contract states that our drivers will need to take them TO (but not through) the security checkpoint at which time we will turn them over to security and DFW's disabilities caretakers. Now, I've carried in DFW (unsecured areas, of course) w/ no problems many, many times. I've even had CHL discussions w/ several officers while there (great guys, very supportive of CHL holders). But I've never had to approach the security checkpoint. Do you think there will be any issues w/ carrying to (but again not through) the checkpoint? I just don't want our drivers having any issues w/ the TSA or Airport Security.

I can't tell you "you'll be fine", but I'll tell you what I would do.

I'd feel confident carrying as long as:
- I made no attempt to go through security (past the boarding pass / ID check stand, and I DEFINITELY wouldn't approach the x-ray or pr0no machine).
- I presented nobody an ID or boarding pass as if I planned to enter the secure area
- I never acted "as a passenger" and could be accused of attempting to go though
- If somehow your passengers need to go though the "Do Not Enter" door (exit), I'd definitely not pass the threshold.

Also remember that TSA agents are not Texas peace officers, and should one of them ask to see your ID (which they shouldn't, because you're not trying to go through security), you don't have to show your CHL. Any contact with an agent is a chance to retell your story, "Oh, I'm not going through security, I'm just escorting so-and-so to the entrance."

Moby wrote:If this is your company remember you may be libel for any issues that arise from an armed driver.
This is why many employers prohibit firearms in the work place. Not because their anti CHL but afraid of legal problems.
If you are the driver for another company a quick call to TSA could help with that. I do not remember seeing
30.06 signs other than at the check points. I weekly ship animals from the cargo area and their are none there.

Without chaecking with TSA I don't think carrying at an airport (passenger areas) is wise. Jusy my opinion.

It is indeed my company. As for a company being libel for the legal defensive use of a handgun by an employee, where did you find this information? I've searched and can't find a single case where it has even been brought up.

As for carrying in the unsecured (and therefore not under TSA control) areas of an airport, why do you think that it's not wise?

fickman wrote:I can't tell you "you'll be fine", but I'll tell you what I would do.

I'd feel confident carrying as long as:
- I made no attempt to go through security (past the boarding pass / ID check stand, and I DEFINITELY wouldn't approach the x-ray or pr0no machine).
- I presented nobody an ID or boarding pass as if I planned to enter the secure area
- I never acted "as a passenger" and could be accused of attempting to go though
- If somehow your passengers need to go though the "Do Not Enter" door (exit), I'd definitely not pass the threshold.

Also remember that TSA agents are not Texas peace officers, and should one of them ask to see your ID (which they shouldn't, because you're not trying to go through security), you don't have to show your CHL. Any contact with an agent is a chance to retell your story, "Oh, I'm not going through security, I'm just escorting so-and-so to the entrance."

That's kind of what I was thinking, but wasn't sure if I'd have issues escorting a passenger to the checkpoint. I've always been comfortable carrying in airports, but I also haven't had to approach the secure area before.

As long as you are in the UNsecured area of the airport, you are good to carry.
If at anytime, you would be required to pass the ID/Boarding Pass stand, (or through the Xray or full body / pat down area), then no, you cannot carry or you will be breaking the law.

RottenApple,

I agree with Flickman completely with this....here is one point of concern....

scenario : "oh, would you mind escorting, Mr Smith to the gate just this once, we seem to be short-handed at the moment, there will be someone from the airline to meet him"

then your employee is stuck, you know it's going to happen, you know it. Dang and heck, I hate to say this, my recommendation might be for your employee to lock it up in the glove box, escort to hand-off then retrieve back at the van. Unless there are two employees and make sure one is not carrying in? I'm sorry to be the fly in the ointment, I just know the way they work.

RottenApple wrote:As for a company being libel for the legal defensive use of a handgun by an employee, where did you find this information? I've searched and can't find a single case where it has even been brought up.

I cannot cite a specific case with a gun but I am sure there have been some. I would guess most come from security work, but there are going to be lots of cases with police officers involved. Under the legal theory of "respondeat supieror" (I think that is how to spell it) the company is responsible for the actions of the employees in the line of duty.

I don't know if permitting them to carry a gun while at work makes you responsible for their actions defending themselves with it, but I strongly suggest you check with your attorney over it in advance of anything happening. You might also check with your liability insurance carrier, but I would go with the attorney first. I don't trust the insurance company to not put a rider in not covering you or say you must ban carry. but if they don't know your policy or ask about it, at least you would be covered for the first incident.

SewTexas wrote:RottenApple,

I agree with Flickman completely with this....here is one point of concern....

scenario : "oh, would you mind escorting, Mr Smith to the gate just this once, we seem to be short-handed at the moment, there will be someone from the airline to meet him"

then your employee is stuck, you know it's going to happen, you know it. Dang and heck, I hate to say this, my recommendation might be for your employee to lock it up in the glove box, escort to hand-off then retrieve back at the van. Unless there are two employees and make sure one is not carrying in? I'm sorry to be the fly in the ointment, I just know the way they work.

I don't believe they can legally let anyone pass through the security checkpoint without a boarding pass. Not even "just this once..."

sjfcontrol wrote:

SewTexas wrote:RottenApple,

I agree with Flickman completely with this....here is one point of concern....

scenario : "oh, would you mind escorting, Mr Smith to the gate just this once, we seem to be short-handed at the moment, there will be someone from the airline to meet him"

then your employee is stuck, you know it's going to happen, you know it. Dang and heck, I hate to say this, my recommendation might be for your employee to lock it up in the glove box, escort to hand-off then retrieve back at the van. Unless there are two employees and make sure one is not carrying in? I'm sorry to be the fly in the ointment, I just know the way they work.

I don't believe they can legally let anyone pass through the security checkpoint without a boarding pass. Not even "just this once..."

I've dropped my kids off at the gate and waved bye-bye.
The ticket agent issues a gate pass (or whatever it's called) to get you through security.
I think it would be unlikely that the TSA would let you through without some form of written "pass", but, life is unexpected some times.

I would go to DFW and ask the TSA folks.

RottenApple wrote:
It is indeed my company. As for a company being libel for the legal defensive use of a handgun by an employee, where did you find this information? I've searched and can't find a single case where it has even been brought up.

It isn't the legal defensive use you need to be worried about. It would be the knucklehead employee who would volunteer to go just a few more steps farther to help out at the security checkpoint, or someone who stumbles and drops his weapon, or it discharges like the recent event at Walmart. Stuff happens. YOU might not do anything wrong, but the guys you hire might, and if you are the boss and gave them permission, you will pay in one form or another.

RoyGBiv wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

SewTexas wrote:RottenApple,

I agree with Flickman completely with this....here is one point of concern....

scenario : "oh, would you mind escorting, Mr Smith to the gate just this once, we seem to be short-handed at the moment, there will be someone from the airline to meet him"

then your employee is stuck, you know it's going to happen, you know it. Dang and heck, I hate to say this, my recommendation might be for your employee to lock it up in the glove box, escort to hand-off then retrieve back at the van. Unless there are two employees and make sure one is not carrying in? I'm sorry to be the fly in the ointment, I just know the way they work.

I don't believe they can legally let anyone pass through the security checkpoint without a boarding pass. Not even "just this once..."

I've dropped my kids off at the gate and waved bye-bye.
The ticket agent issues a gate pass (or whatever it's called) to get you through security.
I think it would be unlikely that the TSA would let you through without some form of written "pass", but, life is unexpected some times.

I would go to DFW and ask the TSA folks.

According to procedure TSA is not supposed to "grant access" to the secured area except to ticketed passengers and a very few special cases, such as parents meeting or dropping off young or disabled children.

I would not ask TSA, because they are only responsible for the secured side of the airport and are thus likely to disseminate improper information, and you don't want to ask DFW or the police either.

SewTexas wrote:RottenApple,

I agree with Flickman completely with this....here is one point of concern....

scenario : "oh, would you mind escorting, Mr Smith to the gate just this once, we seem to be short-handed at the moment, there will be someone from the airline to meet him"

then your employee is stuck, you know it's going to happen, you know it. Dang and heck, I hate to say this, my recommendation might be for your employee to lock it up in the glove box, escort to hand-off then retrieve back at the van. Unless there are two employees and make sure one is not carrying in? I'm sorry to be the fly in the ointment, I just know the way they work.

If that happened, I might show the TSA agent my CHL card and ask him if it's legal for me to be in a secured area of the airport.

RottenApple wrote:Looking for opinions here....

My company is picking up a contract to transport persons with intellectual disabilities to and from DFW Airport. The contract states that our drivers will need to take them TO (but not through) the security checkpoint at which time we will turn them over to security and DFW's disabilities caretakers. Now, I've carried in DFW (unsecured areas, of course) w/ no problems many, many times. I've even had CHL discussions w/ several officers while there (great guys, very supportive of CHL holders). But I've never had to approach the security checkpoint. Do you think there will be any issues w/ carrying to (but again not through) the checkpoint? I just don't want our drivers having any issues w/ the TSA or Airport Security.

There shouldn't be, as long as the drivers don't go into the secured area. As others have said, I wouldn't have a company policy authorizing carry at the airport, but I also would not prohibit it in the policy manual. I would send out a memo if we got the contract, preferably something directly quoting TSA about secure areas and firearms, pocket knives, cups of coffee, etc.

I could be wrong but I don't think he's actually handing off to TSA, I think he's handing off to airport or more likely airline personnel. And airline personnel can give a gate pass. We weren't suppose to get them for our daughter after something like 15 or maybe even earlier, we got them way longer, till she was 17 I think? Southwest is really free with them.

When my in-laws came out to CO Springs, they were already in their 80's, we were offered gate passes when it was time for them to go home, we turned them down and handed them off to airline personnel so they could move faster through security. They put them both in wheelchairs and moved! (I'd gotten turned around in construction, we we were running a bit later than desired, not late but... ) I can't remember which airline that was.