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Guys, it's not often that we're real impressed with the state's administrative offices. I wanted to fill you all in on an experience I recently had with our local TABC office concerning an establishment that had posted both the 51% sign and blue letter sign. Long story short, I walked in to a restaurant in Corpus Christi and noticed that they had the 51% signs posted as would be required for such a place but I also noticed that next to the entrance (in such a fashion that you would only see them on the way out) were the blue letter signs. Now, this particular day I wasn't carrying (it stayed in the truck) but felt obliged to inform a manager of the contradiction of having both signs displayed. The girl who identified herself as the manager proceeded to tell me that I didn't know what I was talking about. I left it at that so as not to start an argument and went on about my business. Later, a friend I was with overheard that same girl telling another guy (likely the ACTUAL manager) of our conversation and he too stated that both signs were required and I didn't know what I was talking about.

Now, I know how delicate our 2nd Amendment rights and CHL legalities are so I take great offense to being told I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to regulations that I had to pay for/study for/attend a class for. To say nothing about my experience as a federal law enforcement officer. So I decided to take it up with the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission and the DPS, sending them identical emails and informing them that I had sent to both agencies.

To my surprise, I received a reply from the local TABC representative first thing the next morning. Here was his reply:

Mr. Comstock,

You are correct in your remark that "incidents like this should be dealt with quickly..."

I am the area supervisor for the Corpus Christi & Victoria Offices. I will make this complaint known to the agent who works this service area today so that we can remedy the situation.

The information that a permit holder provides to us at original application and subsequent renewals regarding percentage of alcohol sales versus food sales sales helps us to dertermine what sign, RED or BLUE, must be displayed at the licensed premises.

I am not at my "STATE" computer at this time, thus I do not have access to those numbers but it is readily printed on the permit issued to the licensed premises. I would venture to say that the BLUE sign is the proper sign for the location but I will have the agent confirm and have the permittee remove the incorrect sign as well as educate the permittee and his employess on which is the proper sign to display.

Thank you for pointing this out to us. We will get it resolved.

Respectfully,

Larry L. Linscombe, Jr.

Lt. Larry L. Linscombe, Jr., CFE

Corpus Christi Area Office
2820 South Padre Island Drive, Suite 120
Corpus Christi, TX 78415
Telephone: (361) 851-2531
TeleFax: (361) 851-2536

Courtesy * Accountability * Service * Integrity

I happened to visit this establishment again (purely by coincidence as I was meeting friends) less than 12 hours after Mr. Linscombe sent this message and I took notice that the 51% signs had been taken down.

Apparently, we DO have common sense workers and those who are on our side within the TABC and I applaud the Corpus Christi office for their lightning fast response to a relatively minor issue. I wanted to brag about that office's response to all y'all so hopefully if you are presented with a similar situation, you'll feel confident in contacting the local TABC office about the issue.

Keep her at center mass, gents!

Great to hear! Always a pleasure to hear positive news once in a while.

Well done and congratulations Mr. Comstock.

I would like to ask for a little clarification please. I'm either a little more dense than usual tonight or I'm just not reading your post correctly. I'm not clear on which signs were posted at this establishment. Was the 51% sign red or blue? And which sign are you referring to when you say "blue letter sign?" Is that the typical "unlicensed possession" sign we see at stores and restaurants?


Thanks.

Well done!

Great job by OP and a wonderful response by Mr. Linscombe, who seems to truly understand public service

to both of you

Maybe I can help a little here.

First off GREAT JOB! stepping in and getting things strait.

I have had some dealings with these matters and here is my understanding...and also confirmed by a TABC employee that took my CHL class.

When a business is in the process of obtaining a TABC permit, they are first issued a "Letter of Authority", which allows them to buy and sell alcohol. At this point they have not been issued their ACTUAL permit, however when the "letter" is issued an employee of TABC sends a packet which includes 2 RED signs (51% NO CARRY) and two BLUE signs (The "unlicensed" posession of a firearm is not allowed) . The problem is that when the "managers" of an establishment recieve their packet they have no clue about which sign to post. I have found several that have posted all four. When their permit arrives it will have type written words right in the middle that say ........... SIGN =BLUE or SIGN=RED .

If you see alcoholic beverages being served, look for the permit, it will tell you the facts. If the permit and the signs don't match, report it to the TABC like the OP. I have done this on a few occasions. It's a hobby now. LOL

There have been cases where people have posted RED signs instead of BLUE based on their own prefferences, as well as because TABC ran out of BLUE signs and just mailed RED. This is why I make a point to check every new establishment I go into.

Keep an eye out people.

C-dub wrote:Well done and congratulations Mr. Comstock.

I would like to ask for a little clarification please. I'm either a little more dense than usual tonight or I'm just not reading your post correctly. I'm not clear on which signs were posted at this establishment. Was the 51% sign red or blue? And which sign are you referring to when you say "blue letter sign?" Is that the typical "unlicensed possession" sign we see at stores and restaurants?


Thanks.

What I understood from the post was the establishment had posted both the red "51%" signs AND the blue "unlicensed possession" signs.

Sorry about the long lag time to reply to questions. I've been away from a computer for a few days.

C-dub--Red Letter sign = 51% sign and the Blue Letter sign = the "typical unlicensed possession" sign you refer to. Both were posted simultaneously. To their credit, the 51% sign was posted correctly i.e. easily visible upon entry. The blue letter sign you would have had to turn around to see as it was posted inside next to the entry door.

I had the exact opposite experience with the guys in Waco...

Here's my original thread...

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The TABC responded and said they'd take care of it, but a year later, it's still like this.

Yeah, I think I'm just confused now. The red 51% sign applies to CHL holders and unlicenced sign applies to everyone else, right? I don't see the problem with having both of these signs posted, but have the feeling I'm going to be really when someone points it out to me.

R_Comstock wrote:Sorry about the long lag time to reply to questions. I've been away from a computer for a few days.

C-dub--Red Letter sign = 51% sign and the Blue Letter sign = the "typical unlicensed possession" sign you refer to. Both were posted simultaneously. To their credit, the 51% sign was posted correctly i.e. easily visible upon entry. The blue letter sign you would have had to turn around to see as it was posted inside next to the entry door.

I have thought about the Blue sign for a while now. Recently one of my wife's friends purchased and opened a restaurant, (Korean), and posted one of the Blue signs. I asked her about it and she said the Fire Department, (Killeen), when they came out to conduct their fire inspection they gave them the blue signage and told them to post it. I thought maybe it was a fluke, so I asked another Chinese restaurant in Round Rock and they stated the same. I don't know, is the blue sign a requirement of some sort? I see them everywhere, especially at ethnic restaurants. I did ask my wife's friend what it meant and she just shrugged her shoulders and repeated the bit about the fire department.

I think it is a requirement if you sell alcohol at all.

C-dub wrote:Yeah, I think I'm just confused now. The red 51% sign applies to CHL holders and unlicenced sign applies to everyone else, right? I don't see the problem with having both of these signs posted, but have the feeling I'm going to be really when someone points it out to me.

The problem is that the law does not prohibit CHL holders from carrying in locations that are required to post the blue sign. This location should only post the blue sign. Businesses do not get to choose which sign(blue/red) they post. The type of liquor license they have determines which sign they are required to display. The location sells alcohol but receives most of its revenue from other products and/or services. It should display only the blue sign and CHL holders are permitted to carry in locations that post blue signs. If the restaurant wants to prohibit CHL holders from carrying, then they need to post a 30.06 sign.

donkey wrote:

C-dub wrote:Yeah, I think I'm just confused now. The red 51% sign applies to CHL holders and unlicenced sign applies to everyone else, right? I don't see the problem with having both of these signs posted, but have the feeling I'm going to be really when someone points it out to me.

The problem is that the law does not prohibit CHL holders from carrying in locations that are required to post the blue sign. This location should only post the blue sign. Businesses do not get to choose which sign(blue/red) they post. The type of liquor license they have determines which sign they are required to display. The location sells alcohol but receives most of its revenue from other products and/or services. It should display only the blue sign and CHL holders are permitted to carry in locations that post blue signs. If the restaurant wants to prohibit CHL holders from carrying, then they need to post a 30.06 sign.

Now I think you are confusing the blue 51% sign up with the blue letter "unlicensed possession" sign as seen in Scott in Houston's picture. However, yes, posting both red and blue 51% signs would be a conflict.

C-dub wrote:

donkey wrote:

C-dub wrote:Yeah, I think I'm just confused now. The red 51% sign applies to CHL holders and unlicenced sign applies to everyone else, right? I don't see the problem with having both of these signs posted, but have the feeling I'm going to be really when someone points it out to me.

The problem is that the law does not prohibit CHL holders from carrying in locations that are required to post the blue sign. This location should only post the blue sign. Businesses do not get to choose which sign(blue/red) they post. The type of liquor license they have determines which sign they are required to display. The location sells alcohol but receives most of its revenue from other products and/or services. It should display only the blue sign and CHL holders are permitted to carry in locations that post blue signs. If the restaurant wants to prohibit CHL holders from carrying, then they need to post a 30.06 sign.

Now I think you are confusing the blue 51% sign up with the blue letter "unlicensed possession" sign as seen in Scott in Houston's picture. However, yes, posting both red and blue 51% signs would be a conflict.

There is no blue 51% sign. There is the blue "unlicensed possession" sign and the red "51%" sign.

donkey wrote: There is no blue 51% sign.

Do you mean at all or just in the establishment you were in?

If only the 51% and Unlicensed Possession signs are posted I'm having trouble understanding what is incorrect about them both being posted.