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One also needs to consider whether the "solution" ends up being worse than the "problem".

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is an Alawite Muslim. Alawite's are not considered Muslims by Suni or Shia Muslims; in fact, Alawites are essentially considered pagans. The revolt is Suni-backed and if they prevail, the minority Alawites who cannot escape to Lebanon or Turkey will be slaughtered.

Either way, the U.S. is backing a revolution that will ultimately result in an anti-American government that will support terrorism against the west, especially the U.S.

Chas.

I am coming to the conclusion that it is pretty hard to find good guys to support in the ME. Seems to me that in every case in the last 10 years or more, we are faced with a choice between a bad guy and an even worse guy. Karzai looked like a good guy at first but he pretty clearly isn't one either.

We need to stop worrying about producing Western democracies in the ME and start concentrating on supporting people who won't support people who want to kill us.

stroo wrote:
We need to stop worrying about producing Western democracies in the ME and start concentrating on supporting people who won't support people who want to kill us.

In that region there's only one, Israel. All the other's are fair weather friends.

MoJo wrote:

stroo wrote:
We need to stop worrying about producing Western democracies in the ME and start concentrating on supporting people who won't support people who want to kill us.

In that region there's only one, Israel. All the other's are fair weather friends.

Please if you don't like what you read, do not read it. If it violates the rules of the forum, please some admin, delete it.

As I understand the actions of the state of Israel:
Israel is only democratic to it Jewish Citizens, Arab in Israel till date feel institutionalized discrimination. Israel wants its state to be a Jewish state in any final peace accord. That is in opposite to its claim of being a democratic secular state. Also, the Arabs in occupied territories have no basic rights, their land is grabbed and declared as state land and new settlements are build on said land.

Beiruty wrote:

MoJo wrote:

stroo wrote:
We need to stop worrying about producing Western democracies in the ME and start concentrating on supporting people who won't support people who want to kill us.

In that region there's only one, Israel. All the other's are fair weather friends.

Please if you don't like what you read, do not read it. If it violates the rules of the forum, please some admin, delete it.

As I understand the actions of the state of Israel:
Israel is only democratic to it Jewish Citizens, Arab in Israel till date feel institutionalized discrimination. Israel wants its state to be a Jewish state in any final peace accord. That is in opposite to its claim of being a democratic secular state. Also, the Arabs in occupied territories have no basic rights, their land is grabbed and declared as state land and new settlements are build on said land.

If the Arabs put down their guns and rockets and bombs, there would be Peace. If the Arabs put down their guns and rockets and bombs, and participated in the democratic process peacefully, Israel would treat them as equals in the democratic process. "Occupied territories" are just that. They were won by war, not unlike parts of the current United States. In fact, I could argue that parts of the current United States were taken in a "war" against the indigenous people that the USA started. Israel did not start the wars that led to them "occupying" "Arab Lands". These lands are the spoils of war. Tough luck.

You fail to state the obvious. Arabs are pursuing a "Death to Israel" plan. When the Arabs decide to pursue PEACE, there will be Peace. The decision to reach Peace lies in Arab hands. If Arabs would seek Peace, Palestinians would have their own State. If Arabs would seek Peace, the issue of the occupied territories might easily be resolved to Arab satisfaction.

If the only thing that will satisfy Arabs is the destruction of Israel, there can be no Peace.

stroo wrote:I am coming to the conclusion that it is pretty hard to find good guys to support in the ME. Seems to me that in every case in the last 10 years or more, we are faced with a choice between a bad guy and an even worse guy.

Energy Independence is soooooooooo critical, that it is unconscionable to not have pursued this with all available resources over the past 30 years. It's inexcusable. From Nixon to Obama, no excuse can even come close to being acceptable. Energy independence is THE issue of our time. Even more important than the debt, IMO.

Yet we overthrew a Saddam in Iraq and took almost no oil.

stroo wrote:Yet we overthrew a Saddam in Iraq and took almost no oil.

That was, IMO, a major misguided mistake by the previous POTUS and his administration. Whether we liked it or not, Saddam, maintained order in his neck of the woods. We, the USA, should have left well enough alone and minded our own business and our own borders.

We, the USA,. are not the world police and we have no more right to force our way of life on others as others have no right to force their way of life on us. History has shown that invasion is not the way to 'win hearts and minds'.

MYOB! (which is not to be confused with BYOB)

Beiruty wrote:As I understand the actions of the state of Israel:
Israel is only democratic to it Jewish Citizens

That's wrong. Israeli citizens can vote in Israel, no matter if they are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Druze, or even atheist.

Citzizens of other countries should vote in their own country, like I should vote in the USA instead of Mexico, Canada or Iraq.

Happily Ever After wrote:

Beiruty wrote:As I understand the actions of the state of Israel:
Israel is only democratic to it Jewish Citizens

That's wrong. Israeli citizens can vote in Israel, no matter if they are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Druze, or even atheist.

Citzizens of other countries should vote in their own country, like I should vote in the USA instead of Mexico, Canada or Iraq.

Hundred thousands of those who where born in Israel between 1948-1967 were forced to leave their homeland and have no rights, least is to go back to their birth towns and live in peace. Arab member(s) of Keenest was/were forced out of the Keenest just because they are against the policies of the Israeli government. Hundreds of Palestinians were deported to other countries because of there political views.

I have a solution, let Israel annex all the occupied Arab land and let all the "new" citizens of Israel have an equal rights and right to vote and elect their representatives.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is an Alawite Muslim. Alawite's are not considered Muslims by Suni or Shia Muslims; in fact, Alawites are essentially considered pagans. The revolt is Suni-backed and if they prevail, the minority Alawites who cannot escape to Lebanon or Turkey will be slaughtered.

Either way, the U.S. is backing a revolution that will ultimately result in an anti-American government that will support terrorism against the west, especially the U.S.

Chas.

In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.

bizarrenormality wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is an Alawite Muslim. Alawite's are not considered Muslims by Suni or Shia Muslims; in fact, Alawites are essentially considered pagans. The revolt is Suni-backed and if they prevail, the minority Alawites who cannot escape to Lebanon or Turkey will be slaughtered.

Either way, the U.S. is backing a revolution that will ultimately result in an anti-American government that will support terrorism against the west, especially the U.S.

Chas.

In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.

I have a first account of Bashar policies and his father polices. In 1982, The father killed some 40,000 persons in 30 days, the son killed some 30,000 in last 18 months? who is the Savage, who is the more savage? In my eyes, both are the worst butchers and tyrants of our lifetime. Whole nation of Syria was ruled in total fear last 45 yrs. Walls had ears, no one trusted his brother and spoke his mind in freedom. The disappeared persons are countless. One would be lucky to be released from political detention sane, or with no brain damage, rendering him like 4 yrs old kid.