TexasCHLforum.com

I'm not looking to pick a fight with the board's owner, but I do want to stimulate discussion.

I like the idea of having a course minimum with no maximum, but I don't like the idea much of limiting instructor/student contact time to a maximum of 4 hours. Sure, I agree that we need to pursue freedom for the students first, but I don't see how limiting time spent with them accomplishes that goal.

By prohibiting me from spending more time with the students if myself and students decide to spend more time, that limits the freedom of the students to spend more time training. After all, if they don't like having a longer course from me (I'm thinking 6 hours or so), they can choose an instructor who only does 4 hours.

What I'm getting at is this: limiting classes to 4 hours violates a student's right to choose. I don't see how that can be peddled as fighting for their rights.

Solution: Offer the 4 hour "maximum" class, plus an add-on "bonus" of 2 hours covering the additional subjects you think are useful/needed beyond the 4 hour agenda. Issue the CHL-100's after 4 hours as required, and let folks go who don't want to stay. Spell it out in your advertising. Great way to advertise "lagniappe" for first timers and nearly-n00bs.

Me? After taking 3 classes in 2 different states, carrying concealed in 15+ states over more than 15 years with a license, I'm aiming for the minimum time and money required to <sarcasm>"freely exercise/renew my 2A rights". </sarcasm>.

The maximum number of hours is required to keep from having a state mandated class in excess of that limit. Currently, that limit is 15 hours for new licensees and 6 hours for renewals. We are just reducing that limit to 4 hours for both.

Nothing in HB47 in any way limits an instructor from spending more time with students, as Roy noted. You could still offer 10 hr classes if you wish, but you would not be able to require students to stay beyond 4 hrs to earn their CHL-100. Roy's suggestion is precisely what I plan to do. I'll conduct the 4 hr. class, do the shooting portion of the course, then issue CHL-100s. I'll then offer an additional X hrs. fee for anyone who wants to stay.

Chas.

I would be one student that would not sign up for more than the minimum.

you dont need it. You could teach most instructors several things. I have learned much from you friend.

It's not uncommon for renewal's to decide to spend the rest of the day, especially if there's a good question and answer session going on.

MANY of my renweals come for the whole day. I am sure well over 1/2

This is directed mainly to Mr. Cotton, but all are welcome to chime in.
I know it's still a little early, but is there any indication as to how this is being received yet.
I like the idea of a 4 hour course.
Thanks!!

Papacub wrote:This is directed mainly to Mr. Cotton, but all are welcome to chime in.
I know it's still a little early, but is there any indication as to how this is being received yet.
I like the idea of a 4 hour course.
Thanks!!

Not really, it's too early. We've had a few contacts in opposition by CHL instructors, but they pretty much follow what we've seen here on the Forum.
I don't anticipate any real opposition in the Legislature, since we've been using 4 hour courses for the same material and test for 16 years. Of course, I could be in for an unpleasant surprise.

Chas.

Speaking as a CHL n00b, I think that the required information from the introductory CHL class that I took this fall could be compressed into 4hrs. That is, if my understanding of what is required is accurate to the law. But I really did enjoy the entire day that I spent in class. This may be particular to the instructor that I had, but I found every bit of the information to be thought-provoking and useful. I'm not sure that I would have opted for the additional class portion if there were added cost. I'm still a ways away from my first renewal, but I'll probably elect to stick around for the entire class when the time comes.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Papacub wrote:This is directed mainly to Mr. Cotton, but all are welcome to chime in.
I know it's still a little early, but is there any indication as to how this is being received yet.
I like the idea of a 4 hour course.
Thanks!!

Not really, it's too early. We've had a few contacts in opposition by CHL instructors, but they pretty much follow what we've seen here on the Forum.
I don't anticipate any real opposition in the Legislature, since we've been using 4 hour courses for the same material and test for 16 years. Of course, I could be in for an unpleasant surprise.

Chas.

I think my opposition to it is taken care of now. But, just to be clear, under the proposed change I can keep on teaching if I hand out the CHL-100 after 4 hours of classroom and their successful qualification?

Has DPS opined one way or the other about 4 hour classes for new licensees?

PracticalTactical wrote:What I'm getting at is this: limiting classes to 4 hours violates a student's right to choose. I don't see how that can be peddled as fighting for their rights.

Exactly the opposite is true. Requiring a 10 hour class (or any class) is what limits a student's right to choose. Students can always take additional classes, but you would deny me the choice to take no class, when I can pass both tests without wasting time and money on your class.

My last Instructor renewal was the freebee 2 years ago. This time I have to range qualify for another Instructor to sign me off. I plan on taking a full course from one of the really good Instructors mentioned here on the forum. We can all learn and I know the course will help me be a better Instructor.

PracticalTactical wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Papacub wrote:This is directed mainly to Mr. Cotton, but all are welcome to chime in.
I know it's still a little early, but is there any indication as to how this is being received yet.
I like the idea of a 4 hour course.
Thanks!!

Not really, it's too early. We've had a few contacts in opposition by CHL instructors, but they pretty much follow what we've seen here on the Forum.
I don't anticipate any real opposition in the Legislature, since we've been using 4 hour courses for the same material and test for 16 years. Of course, I could be in for an unpleasant surprise.

Chas.

I think my opposition to it is taken care of now. But, just to be clear, under the proposed change I can keep on teaching if I hand out the CHL-100 after 4 hours of classroom and their successful qualification?

Has DPS opined one way or the other about 4 hour classes for new licensees?

You are correct. DPS cannot comment on policy decisions, but it can respond to questions from a Senate or House committee.

Chas.