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Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:20 am
by JusticeWargrave
Hello from Austin, Texas Gentlemen. I just joined the forum and have a quick question regarding carrying without a license.
Please feel free to clear any misconceptions I might have regarding the law. I know that I am not speaking with attorney and that this is not legal advice.
As I understand it, it is OK to go directly from your front door to your car with a weapon concealed without a CHL.
Is it permissible to carry directly from your car to an office where you work without a license? The office has no restrictions on weapons. It is a private place of business though we occasionally get walk-ins from the public.
I walk about a city block from our parking garage to our office. Would it be permissible to carry from my private property (car) to a private place of business without a license?
Ideally I'd like to put my gun in my briefcase from my car to my office and leave it there during the day. I just feel like I am only half prepared by having a weapon up until I park for work.
And finally, I am going to take the class and apply for my license next month and hopefully have everything squared away before March/April. Thus, this is only a temporary measure.
Thanks for your help.
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:28 am
by RPB
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.
(a-3) For purposes of this section, "watercraft" means any boat, motorboat, vessel, or personal watercraft, other than a seaplane on water, used or capable of being used for transportation on water.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.
so
JusticeWargrave wrote:Hello from Austin, Texas Gentlemen. I just joined the forum and have a quick question regarding carrying without a license.
Please feel free to clear any misconceptions I might have regarding the law. I know that I am not speaking with attorney and that this is not legal advice.
As I understand it, it is OK to go directly from your front door to your car with a weapon concealed without a CHL.
correct
Is it permissible to carry directly from your car to an office where you work without a license?
Probably not;
A criminal offense is committed if if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
The office has no restrictions on weapons. It is a private place of business though we occasionally get walk-ins from the public.
I walk about a city block from our parking garage to our office. Would it be permissible to carry from my private property (car) to a private place of business without a license?
You could legally carry a rifle/shotgun/long gun probably
Ideally I'd like to put my gun in my briefcase from my car to my office and leave it there during the day. I just feel like I am only half prepared by having a weapon up until I park for work.
You could legally carry a rifle/shotgun/long gun probably
And finally, I am going to take the class and apply for my license next month and hopefully have everything squared away before March/April. Thus, this is only a temporary measure.
Thanks for your help.
You could legally carry a rifle/shotgun/long gun probably
An AMD65 (AK-47 folding carbine) fits nicely in a Wilson Tennis racquet case from Walmart with a 20 round magazine and a zippered pocket for extra magazines, oops I mean tennis balls.
Carrying a concealed rifle in a Wilson Tennis racket case requires no license and is less likely to get you convicted/arrested for Disorderly Conduct than open carrying a rifle. (911- man with a gun walking down the street ...)
The guy at University of Texas carried his AK on a bus to school in his backpack
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:33 am
by E.Marquez
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80 ... 01815F.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The gun would need to stay in the car as far as i understand the MPA.
Without the CHL, you do not have an exception to remove it concealed from the car and go to the place of employment.
Work around? Maybe.. go from home to car, car to work with gun concealed. ,,, In that parking lot your still covered so leave it secured,, or ..... Unload the weapon, place in a lock box.. take lock box into place of employment.. secure in a desk or locker.
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:57 am
by JusticeWargrave
Here is another variable: What if I owned the business? Someone suggested to me that this was permitted but I was still unsure.
I'm assuming it comes from this:
"on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control"
but I'm not too confident after reading it myself.
I am a little reluctant to carry a folding AK or long gun, although I have considered the Kel Tec Sub 2000 as I believe its dimensions fit my briefcase. I still think this is overkill and would prefer a handgun.
It looks like the worst case might be having a lock box, and I am OK with that. Though I wouldn't want it locked/secure in the office if I could help it.
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:03 am
by RPB
(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters,
If you own the real estate/property upon which the business is located, there would be no question you could carry on your own property.
Owning a business located on someone else's property ,,, depends,
is the property under your control? ... I can't answer.
If you lease in a building where the building owner posts a 30.06 sign for the property ...
the business may be under your control, but not the property; the property may or may not be under your control.
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:04 am
by E.Marquez
JusticeWargrave wrote:Here is another variable: What if I owned the business? Someone suggested to me that this was permitted but I was still unsure.
I'm assuming it comes from this:
"on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control"
but I'm not too confident after reading it myself.
I am a little reluctant to carry a folding AK or long gun, although I have considered the Kel Tec Sub 2000 as I believe its dimensions fit my briefcase. I still think this is overkill and would prefer a handgun.
It looks like the worst case might be having a lock box, and I am OK with that. Though I wouldn't want it locked/secure in the office if I could help it.
Sure you own the place, or can convince a LEO, Judge, or jury that you had legal control over the premises..have at it.
But with a viable option....few hours of your time after work or weekend, and a few weeks waiting on the paperwork process.. You can enjoy the same exception most of us here do,,, and carry in the scenario you have described with impunity. Worry free of finding a "work Around"
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:13 am
by JusticeWargrave
I understand the point about the license. I am going to register for a class in January and get the ball rolling. In the meantime, my main concern is if I own the business, can I travel to and from the car? I am not worried about having the gun in my office, only getting between my car and the office.
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:18 am
by RPB
JusticeWargrave wrote:I understand the point about the license. I am going to register for a class in January and get the ball rolling. In the meantime, my main concern is if I own the business, can I travel to and from the car? I am not worried about having the gun in my office, only getting between my car and the office.
It isn't whether you own the business,
a business is not a premises.
"premises" includes real property .. as in property you own upon where your home is, property you own where your business is... it does not necessarily include renatl property you do not own and which is not under your control (what's the lease say?)
it's if you own
the property; or if the property is
under your control (I suppose that means what rights under a lease etc, ...can plow and you plant artichokes there?)
Or does the property owner regulate what you can do on that property? (As in an office building where the owner might post a 30.06 sign at the entrance of the building?)
If the property (upon which your home or business is) is under your control; you'd be ok
If not, then no.
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:21 am
by wally775
In the context of your question and the way it was asked, Yes.
You would be under what is commonly called MPA.
IANAL. I would however urge you to get your CHL.
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:32 am
by JusticeWargrave
I do not own the property.The premises of the business is property that is leased. There is no 30.06 sign. There are no restrictions in the lease regarding firearms. The property is exclusively under my control and not regulated by the owner. It's in an office building, so there is no plowing or growing of plants.
Thanks for all your help. I'm going to start the CHL process next month and not worry about this much longer!
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:54 pm
by recaffeination
JusticeWargrave wrote:Here is another variable: What if I owned the business? Someone suggested to me that this was permitted but I was still unsure.
I'm assuming it comes from this:
"on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control"
If you own the building and parking lot you are gold. You don't even have to conceal it.
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:30 pm
by mloamiller
For what it's worth, this specific scenario was brought up by the instructor in my CHL class earlier this year. He said that as long as you were "en route" between your business and your car, you could carry without a license. He also said that as soon as you stopped in at the yogurt shop along the way, you were in violation, unless you had a CHL.
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:49 pm
by JALLEN
Assuming no CHL, how does one carry a weapon from the car to the range line, or office?
Here in California, the weapon is carried either locked in the trunk, or locked in a container not immediately accessible to the driver, unloaded, like a locked range bag in the back seat or back of an SUV with no trunk. You can carry the unloaded weapon from the car to the range, or the gun store or gunsmith etc, and to and from the house. You can keep a firearm in your place of business as the owner or with the owner's permission, loaded, or in your home, including RV, mobile home, boat that you can live in, etc.
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:17 pm
by Happily Ever After
JALLEN wrote:Assuming no CHL, how does one carry a weapon from the car to the range line, or office?
Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted
If you own or lease the property where your office is located, that's your own premises or premises under your control. If you don't then the safest thing legally is don't carry it on or about your person, as defined by case law, until you have a CHL or other hall pass.
Re: Carry in Vehicle without a license.
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:22 pm
by mikedude
E.Marquez wrote:JusticeWargrave wrote:Here is another variable: What if I owned the business? Someone suggested to me that this was permitted but I was still unsure.
I'm assuming it comes from this:
"on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control"
but I'm not too confident after reading it myself.
I am a little reluctant to carry a folding AK or long gun, although I have considered the Kel Tec Sub 2000 as I believe its dimensions fit my briefcase. I still think this is overkill and would prefer a handgun.
It looks like the worst case might be having a lock box, and I am OK with that. Though I wouldn't want it locked/secure in the office if I could help it.
Sure you own the place, or can convince a LEO, Judge, or jury that you had legal control over the premises..have at it.
But with a viable option....few hours of your time after work or weekend, and a few weeks waiting on the paperwork process.. You can enjoy the same exception most of us here do,,, and carry in the scenario you have described with impunity. Worry free of finding a "work Around"
This is sound advice. The problem with this law are those that want to stretch the parameters of it. In the car is fine, but when you start going 4 blocks this way, maybe stop to get a soda enroute, ect, you are asking for trouble. Sure you can say you are walking to your car, house or whatever. Do you really think LEO's are going to drive you around looking for your car so you can prove you are just doing that?