TexasCHLforum.com

What is the law regarding a restaurant that also has a bar where only the bar area is displaying te 51 sign? I was told you can carry in the restaurant but cannot enter the designated bar area. I was also told that any time a 51 sign is displayed regardless of location you cannot carry anywhere on the premises.

Does anybody have a firm explanation on this?

pj428 wrote:What is the law regarding a restaurant that also has a bar where only the bar area is displaying te 51 sign? I was told you can carry in the restaurant but cannot enter the designated bar area. I was also told that any time a 51 sign is displayed regardless of location you cannot carry anywhere on the premises.

Does anybody have a firm explanation on this?

This issue has been discussed in depth here. I'll see if I can find some threads for you.

However, the law for CHLers simply reads that you cannot carry into a premise that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premise consumption. If a place that does not meet that definition posts a 51% SIGN, the sign holds no validity, and carry is not prohibited there based on the 51% law.

If a place that IS a 51% place fails to post a sign, you still are prohibited from carry there, and the lack of a proper sign is no defense.

We have a TABC instructor here who I bet can give you a much better explanation of the "bar in a restaurant" question than I.

Texas Penal Code

Text
§46.035. Unlawful carrying of handgun by license holder.

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's
person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises
consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage
Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

If the bar and the restaurant are operating under the same name like Chili's, TGI Fridays, etc. the sign is probably invalid. however if say it's a bar inside a bowling alley it might very well be 51%. If in question, report it to TABC. If the wrong signage is posted they will correct the situation.

TABC is very prompt in response to questions regarding the 51% signs. I reported one restaurant and was very impressed with the response. The sign was incorrect and was taken down within days of the report.

The 51% sign does not have the force of law as does the 30.06 sign when properly posted.

By that I mean, the violation of a CHL carrying ocurrs when the CHL carries into an establishment deriving 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcohol for on premisis consumption...regardless of the presence or absence of a 51% sign.

On the other hand, if a CHL carries in a place which does NOT derive 51% of its revenue, there is no violation regardless of how many 51% signs there may be.

It is the nature of the business one enters while carrying with a CHL which establishes the violation. Not the 51% sign or lack thereof.

In comparison, a properly posted 30.06 sign, by its presence, DOES trigger a violation when a CHL carries into the establishment...regardless of the nature of the business.

I concur with the comments above about contacting TABC if you see a restaurant, or other business like a liquor store, improperly posting a 51% sign. These business, when they get a TABC retail permit get a whole big envelope of documents and signs from TABC, and some with a bit of ignorance or an abundance of caution, often seem to post every sign they get. TABC is very responsive to this issue.

I hope this helps to clarify the matter.

CWOOD gave a good explanation. It's a shame there wasn't time to address this in 2007; maybe we can bring it up in 2009.

In my opinion, the 51% restriction should be eliminated. The law should not forbid carry on any private property, whether it's a church, a bar, a private school, or the site of a professional sporting event. Forbidding firearms is up to the property owner, and PC 30.06 provides a reasonable means for private property owners to do so.

But if the 51% rule remains, the lack of obvious signage should be an exemption to application of the law.

Kevin

I sorta ran into this yesterday evening.

Popular, private BBQ restaurant, divided into 2 sections: bar and eatery, open door adjoining, one tab can cover you if you change tables from one side to the other.
The bar is pretty busy, most evenings it has more people than the eating side.
No 51% or any other such sign.

But I figure their alcohol revenue has to be pretty substantial as a percentage of their total. What if they sell 52% alcohol and I don't know it?

I was dining in the Hyde Park Grill in South Austin and was startled to see a 51% sign by the bar. No way the establishment as a whole can be 51%, as food rather than liquor clearly predominates. Quite confusing.